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[VarunS]

Hi Guys,

Have been reading over the Pizza Napoletana thread and it is utterly fascinating with such superb information. Thanks to all you guys for this.

I am currently trying to reproduce some Neapolitan style pizzas. Moramarco farina di grano tenero tipo 00 flour is what is available to me. The problem i came across was that my edges just did not puff up. They were just flat, lifeless.

I used the foll recipe:

1000gm flour
560 gm water, room temp
0.2gm instant dry yeast
28 gm salt

Let the water and flour hydrate for 60 odd mins after which I added the yeast and salt which was mixed with about 30 gm water (from the 560). Kneaded this by hand for about 12 minutes until I was happy with the consistency. I seem to have developed the gluten quite well as you can almost see my hand in the pic below. I immediately balled it into about 250gm balls and controlled fermentation at 25 degrees centigrade for 3 hours. After this I took it to my warmer kitchen, atleast 30 degrees for about half hour before I started opening them.

The dough handled very well, however I had some difficulty removing it from the tray (it was sticking). I opened the dough using the slap technique and created a rim. I cooked this in a 375 degree oven for about 2:30 seconds (no top heating element, though I feel that wont change outcome of not puffing up). Did I not let it proof enough? Would this affect the outcome so drastically? Yesterday evening I made another batch like this and was trying to do a long fermentation at room temperature (22 degrees) using same recipe and morning when I woke up it was over the top fermented  . At 1 am before sleeping they looked fine even though they had spread quite a bit in the tray. Perhaps I should have seen it coming.

Opposed to this I have made a another batch of dough (cold fermented for 2 days) , NY style, which had AP flour, gluten and pizza improvers and oil added to the mix. Using the same technique and oven temperature I got really nice results.

I am slightly perplexed, would be glad if someone can point out where I am going wrong. Something which struck me just now could be that my flour (00)is nearly a year old but it has been refrigerated.

Varun

[andreguidon]

try balling the dough after at least 1 hour rest after the dough felt good. wen u say 375 you mean 375C right? another detail is that in the slap technique you should push air to the cornicione...

[VarunS]

yes 375 centigrade. will try waiting awhile before balling.

yes i did push the air to the sides same way like in the above pizza

thanks

[scott123]

Varun, the designation '00' refers to the fineness/courseness of the grind, not the flour's protein content. You can have high protein, hard wheat 00 flour that's suitable for pizza and low protein, soft wheat 00 flour that's unsuitable for pizza.

'Grano tenero' translates as 'tender grain' or 'soft wheat.' Soft wheat flour isn't suitable for Neapolitan pizza.

Once you get the right flour worked out, here are some other suggestions:

Ferment longer- 3.5 hours total ferment for Neapolitan flour/dough is too short, imo. If the dough is puffing up too much with an overnight ferment, use less yeast.

Reduce the bake time- shoot for 1:30 or less.

Use the top element. The top heating element (broiler) plays a pretty big role in puff/oven spring.  Without sufficient top heat, baking dough will have a tendency to puff up in the oven and then start to deflate/fall.  In an ideal scenario, the top heat will be sufficient to set the dough at it's peak.

[shuboyje]

0.2 grams of yeast in 1000 grams of flour makes for 0.02% in bakers percentage.  That is extremely low, especially for only a couple hour fermentation. 

[VarunS]

Scott,

It says Pizza in bold on the bag of flour so I assumed it is for Pizza use. Can I post a link to show you the packaging? Not sure if it is against forum rules.

Will try for slightly longer ferment. I don't have a top heating element in my oven so its difficult to get that bake time.

Shuboyje,

Yes it is a little less but it can get really hot here so to be on the safer side for room temp ferment I really cut back on the yeast. The dough felt right while stretching and handling after the 3 hour ferment but will definitely extend this duration and try again.

Thanks, will report back soon enough

[scott123]

Varun, the forum staff prefers for members to upload photos rather than posting links, but there are no rules prohibiting it. 

[Pizza Napoletana]

Hi Guys,

Have been reading over the Pizza Napoletana thread and it is utterly fascinating with such superb information. Thanks to all you guys for this. . . .

Dear VarunS, I thank you for the compliment! I have one question: what kind of oven do you use? Good night!

[c0mpl3x]

hands down my favorite video

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbkfDqA8yKg&amp;feature=related" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbkfDqA8yKg&amp;feature=related</a>

[VarunS]

Scott, I have managed to get a photo. The one on the right hand side (green color) with Pizza on it is the one I used.

Omid I have attached a pic of the oven I use. It only has a bottom heating element. Oven manages to reach 375 C even though thermostat is max at 300, don't think its very accurate. Also insulation is very poor.

Yesterday I got a chance to visit a person who imports ovens here in India. They had lincoln, combitherm and pizza master. Pizza Master is a swedish company and they supply ovens to Jeff Varasano's pizzeria as well I understand. The dough which I used was more along the lines of NY style formulation. Got some pretty nice pies in a 3 min bake time, cooked at 340 C. The same company makes a 500 degree Napoli version at an additiaonl cost of course. All their models come standard at 350 max temp but can be modified for 500 C. Wish I could have tried the Napoli version. Here are some pics

 

[VarunS]

Continued..

[VarunS]

Thanks for that link c0mpl3x

[Pizza Napoletana]

Dear VarunS, that is an interesting oven! Thank you for all the information. Namaste!

[VarunS]

So sorry, the oven above is the pizza master which I tried yesterday. This is mine  

Also Namaste!

[scott123]

Varun, Neapolitan bake times are close to impossible in bottom heat only scenarios.  The only way it's possible is if the bottom burner has a tremendous number of BTUs, and you're able to direct this intense heat, by way of deflection, around the hearth, up and over and then down onto the top of the pizza.

I'm not sure how you can reconfigure your oven to achieve this, but, if you really want a Neapolitan pizza out of that oven, I would read this thread

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14521.0.html

As far as the flour goes, when it comes to 00 flour, a photo of pizza on the packaging is usually an excellent sign.  That being said, a 56% hydration, windowpaned dough shouldn't be sticking to the tray, at least not a lightly oiled tray.  Is the tray oiled? Are you flouring the dough balls before placing on the tray?

[andreguidon]

for neapolitan pizza the MEDIA flour in the website is the closest to caputo pizzeria and 5stagioni napoletana.
http://www.moramarco.it/html/pages/prodotti/farina-di-grano-tenero-tipo-00.php