Pizza! ^_^

[DoughFoSho]

Thanks everyone [SCOTT!, Don, Peter, Michael, the calculator(lol)] and these forums for your kind help in my newbie thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16516.0.html) ^_^

It came out like I wanted! Thin with a bubbly crust ^_^
It was so paper thin around the middle that you could see through , overall, I could have streched the sides abit more, it's a 13.3" (this pizza screen is 13.78") but I wanted to leave some crust there, ya know
so next time I'll go for a 14" sized pies =]

I regret not brushing the curst abit before the bake, just to give it some color, but no biggie

Preheat was 90min, it was thin (not sticky, tho) so I was scared enough to directly put it to the oven, so I baked it for a couple min or so, with the screen, and then slided the screen out
Baked using broiler. I also spinned the pie a couple of time during the bake and also took it once outside for a few seconds to cool down and then put it back to the oven, just so the bottom will be baked properly without burning the topping, this is also why I switched from broiler to bottom, only for the last couple (or so) minutes of the baking time (which was around 10min)

I would attach the pics, but it says below that the maximum size allowed is 128kb D:!
 http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4508/37320373.jpg
 http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/9472/81566623.jpg
 http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/4372/35698216.jpg
 http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4999/78400170.jpg
 http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7067/39932766.jpg
 http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/6403/crust.jpg
 http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/6972/40686413.jpg
 http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4158/thickn.jpg

EDIT: Decreased the (already low) quality, and attached for a comfortable view, the above are bigger also

[buceriasdon]

Sharhar, Very good start, looking good. This is a free software program that is quite user friendly and fast in reducing photos for the internet.
http://www.imageoptimizer.net/Pages/Home.aspx
Don

[scott123]

Shahar, in your first post you mentioned only making 'a few pizzas so far.' I don't know how many 'a few' is, but if this is one of the first pizza's you've made, this is truly amazing- it usually takes a lot of pizzamaking for beginners to produce something that looks as good as that.

Here are a few observations.

Try, if possible, to take photos of your pizzas in either incandescent or natural sunlight, not fluorescent, as it lends a strange green hue to the pies.

It's very very common for beginners to have very thin dough at the center of the pizza.  Watch this video a few times:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjYqw1CLZsA" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjYqw1CLZsA</a>

Pay close attention to the action that he does at 1:30.  This is important for making sure the outer edge of the crust (before the rim) is a similar thickness to the center.

One of the downsides to cooked sauce is that, beyond dulling the flavor of the tomato, it dulls the color as well, so you don't get a nice bright red sauce on the parts where there isn't cheese or where the cheese is thin. A big part of the beauty of Mike's pies is the redness from the traditionally uncooked sauce.

Pizza screens limit the amount of heat reaching the bottom of the pizza and extend the baking time. It's going to take some practice, but learn to master a peel.  Start off with lots of flour on the peel and frequently shake it to make sure that it's not sticking. As you master the peel, you'll be able to cut back on the flour and only use just enough that's necessary.

[chickenparm]

Looks like Pro did it there! Nice Job!
 

[DoughFoSho]

THANKS ALOT FOR THE COMLIMENTS GUYS!! =]

Don, thanks for the link, I save my photos using photoshop so decreasing their quality was no issue for me, I just rathered not do so, since the quality of the picutres was low as it is D:

Thanks for the observation Scott!
As for the photos, I'm getting Samsung Galaxy S2 soon enough, but in the meanwhile I'm using my sis' cell phone in order to take pics, and its camera is pretty lame, sorry
At the time it was the evening, so sunlight wasn't possible, BUT the kitchen has a high quality bright light (unlike the living room, where I took the pics) so I'll do that next time

Yes, to be exact, this is my 3rd pizza ever-made, and the first one by-hand (no rolling) aswell. I saw this vid and I kinda understood what to do by observing Tony's work, it made sense to me, and as I was doing it today, it felt as if I've done it many times before, was also fun!
As for the thin center- yeah, when I grabbed the dough in order to lift it, I accidently held it by the center, instead of the side, so eventhough I switched and held right away by the side.. it streched the center abit. I'll easily avoid it next time

Regarding the sauce, I get what youre saying about the color, that's a nice point you have there
Next time I'll just mix the olive oil with the whole mixture instead of cooking it for a few minutes, it tasted great prior to cooking aswell anyway, I just wanted to cook it a few minutes for the olive oil.

As of the baking, yeah, I have read your guys' screen-stone related posts in other threads already, it's just that my peel is relatively small (as you can see in the 4th pic), so I can't use it and, like you said, 'shake it every once in a while', not until I get a wooden and larger peel, atleast
Does it really matter if I let it cook with the screen just for a couple of minutes? I took it out really quick
Maybe next time I'll simply try to use the screen as a peel and just slide it into the oven, because the dough wasn't sticky actually, so I think I can get away with this =]

Thanks!

[chickenparm]

While its still early for me to conclude my sauce experiments,I did try cooking/simmering my sauce recently and like Scott said,it might lose some brightness.

However,I simmered the sauce on very low heat,as low as the burner would go,for 4 hours.It was one of the best simple pizza sauces I ever made at home.It lost just a tiny fraction of its brightness,and most people might not be able to tell.

The simmering really brought the flavor out of the tomatoes and the garlic in it was incredible.My wife and family loved it.It was a good thing I did because the crushed tomatoes plus the whole peeled I crushed and added,the sauce was a bit watery.Simmering steamed the water out nicely without burning anything up.

I have always made pizza with un cooked sauces and they always worked well,but this simmering for a few hours has me wondering if I can get more out of it.

If you go to my topic,a four minute bake into the past on this NY style forum,you can see 2 pies on there.
The first has a non cooked sauce.The second pie was has a 4 hour simmered sauce.

The sauce was amazing and does not appear to have lost much color.I believe if someone cooks their sauce on medium to high heat,it will get darker much faster and burn the tomatoes.I guess as long as you don't burn your sauce and keep the heat very low,you can use it on the pizza with good results.

Didnt meant to hijack,just wanted to share my experience here.
 

[scott123]

Your third pizza?!?   That's phenomenal.

Of the NY style pizzerias that add olive oil, they drizzle it on top of the pizza before or after baking, but never add it directly to the sauce.  I'm not saying you shouldn't add it, but I would try it on top rather than in the sauce at least once.

A wood peel is pretty critical.  You can wait for a better flour, oven, and, if necessary, stone, but you've got to get (or make) a wood peel.  And it's got a be the right wood peel. A lot of wood peels are clunky and hard to manage and only taper to a point towards the edge of the peel.   A good peel has a taper that starts almost all the way to the end of the handle and never exceeds about 1/2" thickness.

A couple of minutes of screen time is still detrimental.  You're adding probably about 1/2 minute to the total bake time. Basically, right now, you're at a 10 minute bake. For the best possible no/low oil pizza with the most 'bubbles'/oven spring, you really want to be in the 4 minute realm.  This forum has many members that make 10 minute pizzas and are happy with their results.  For those members that have been able to trim the baking clock, though, they've all been happier with the shorter baked pizzas.  No one ever achieves a 4 minute bake and says "You know what, I like 10 minute bakes better, I'm going to back to 10."  It never happens. Right now, anything that adds to your bake time (such as a screen) is bad, anything that subtracts (such as a better stone or a hotter oven) is good.

[scott123]

However,I simmered the sauce on very low heat,as low as the burner would go,for 4 hours.It was one of the best simple pizza sauces I ever made at home.

Simmering tomatoes will give you some complexity of flavor, such as muted metallic-y iron-y notes, but the biggest player, imo, is additional sweetness.  By adding sugar to uncooked tomatoes, you get that same sweetness, but with the brightness of the tomato.  Sugar, to me, is one of the most critical ingredients in pizza sauce. Most pizzerias add it, and, for those that don't, it's omission is glaring- these places never do the kind of business or win the awards of those that do.

I'm not necessarily saying that you shouldn't cook your sauce, but, if you do like a long simmer, you might want to try an uncooked sauce with a bit more sugar in it.

[DoughFoSho]

Thanks for the comment chickenparm,

I have to say that I made my sauce the exact same way you did,
My previous sauce; I kept stirring it on the lowest possible flame the gas could come up with, and I did it for a whole hour, just, like you said, to let the flavors come together and to make it thicker
This time around, I did the same, but instead of a whole hour, just a few minutes, but it was the same proccess, as I already posted in my Newbie Topics' thread (the one I posted here)
I planned to do it for longer but changed my mind and took it out,

While writing this reply, and also my previous one, I was trying to remember how the color of the crushed tomatos looked like before I cooked it,  because just like you, I also cooked it on such low heat, and kept stirring, so if this proccess doesn't cause brightness loss according to you (since again, I didn't pay attention to this factor), I'm more than sure neither did mine, so maybe I should buy another can and check the original color D:

I'll be sure to dig into this matter, but I also liked the uncook taste as I previously mentioned to taste, also, even uncooked it wasn't as watery as I was expecting it to be, and this is why I changed my mind and took it out of the gas after just a few minutes, so I don't think cooking will be necessary
If I come accorss more of a watery-texture crushed tomatos that I like, I'll give the cooking a-go, but here in Israel we don't have the kind of variety I can only imagine you guys have, and in the last few days I have tasted all of them (which is only about 4?  ), besides one that is lying in the kitchen

EDIT, led by Scotts replies:
Thanks Scott!
Even if I do take out the screen, I think I will still have to bake it relatively close to the 10min, given the fact (as you already know) that my oven isn't as hot as others can get, but as I said, next time I'll try and give the screen a go as a peel and see how it goes,

Regarding the sauce! You guys don't add olive oil into your 6in1 mix? O_O  I'm confused, are you saying you all drizzle it on top of the dough before adding the sauce onto it? Or you don't add olive oil at all?

And I'm with you on the sugar part, to me it is the most critical factor to a sauce, I use brown sugar

[scott123]

Shahar, if you're getting watery crushed tomatoes, it will cost a bit more and involve more labor, but buy whole peeled italian tomatoes, remove them from the juice (the juice will be very watery), take out as many seeds as you can and crush them by hand.  The end result will not be too watery.

Edit:  When I say "Italian" I mean Italian style or 'Roma' tomatoes, not tomatoes from Italy.  They can be grown anywhere. Israel has good weather for tomatoes, so I expect you should be able to find a canned tomato from Israel.

[DoughFoSho]

Oh, I don't, I just said that if I ever DO find crushed tomatos which I like, BUT are watery, I'll give the cooking a go again, but as for now, the crushed tomatos that I do use arn't too watery
Also, please read my edit in my previous reply, I added it after realizing you had posted again ( I replied right after chicken did, and failed to see it =])

[scott123]

EDIT, led by Scotts replies:
Thanks Scott!
Even if I do take out the screen, I think I will still have to bake it relatively close to the 10min, given the fact (as you already know) that my oven isn't as hot as others can get, but as I said, next time I'll try and give the screen a go as a peel and see how it goes,

Regarding the sauce! You guys don't add olive oil into your 6in1 mix? O_O  I'm confused, are you saying you all drizzle it on top of the dough before adding the sauce onto it? Or you don't add olive oil at all? I'm confused

Olive oil is really not a common addition to NY style pizza, but, for those that add it, they

Form the skin and top it with topppings, then, right before baking, drizzle it with oil (last)

or

Bake the pizza, and, when it comes out of the oven, drizzle it with oil.

Oil, especially extra virgin olive oil, is much more of a Neapolitan thing.

And every second counts with your bake time.  A no screen 9.5 minute pizza will be a little bit better than a 10 minute one.

[DoughFoSho]

Thanks, I was sure you all add olive oil!
I'll leave the oil aside next time I do a sauce batch

Scott, do you maybe have a thread to show me of a guy who had baked the same kind of pizza (same formula, maybe even same dough batch) once 4min and the other, like you said, 10?
I'd like to see the difference,
that makes me even more bummed about not having the new oven right away =[

[norma427]

DoughFoSho,

Your pizzas look amazing for your 3rd attempt!  Congrats! 

If are interested, and want to try a different kind of tomato sauce for a pizza, Les’s sauce is a good one to try.  The tomatoes (any kind, are slow baked, to bring out the sweetness), then a crushed tomato product is added.  If you are interested in Les’s sauce I posted about it different times at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11539.0.html

Norma

[chickenparm]

Simmering tomatoes will give you some complexity of flavor, such as muted metallic-y iron-y notes, but the biggest player, imo, is additional sweetness.  By adding sugar to uncooked tomatoes, you get that same sweetness, but with the brightness of the tomato.  Sugar, to me, is one of the most critical ingredients in pizza sauce. Most pizzerias add it, and, for those that don't, it's omission is glaring- these places never do the kind of business or win the awards of those that do.

I'm not necessarily saying that you shouldn't cook your sauce, but, if you do like a long simmer, you might want to try an uncooked sauce with a bit more sugar in it.

Thanks Scott!

Believe it or not,my recent simmered sauce needed some sugar,by the 3rd hour of simmering,it was still a bit bitter.Using 2 pinches of sugar during that last hour got it just right.That said,what do I know,It was my first time anyway.Im just learning as I go.

When I make a pie with an un cooked sauce,sometimes I need sugar,sometimes I don't.I taste the tomatoes after I pour it into a bowl,to see how sweet it is from the start,before I use it.

I don't know if what I describe next makes a lot of sense,but I grew up on NY style pizza where the sauce sort of tasted like a low salt tomato soup at time,but had a somewhat garlic and basil hint.The tomato flavor was strongest,but was neither overly sweet or salty...in fact it was sometimes a very plain,tomatoey soup tasting sauce.But it was incredible on the pie.Im trying to duplicate it and I am hit and miss so far with uncooked sauces.

I really suck at wording things to describe flavors...but that was the best I could do.
 

[scott123]

Scott, do you maybe have a thread to show me of a guy who had baked the same kind of pizza (same formula, maybe even same dough batch) once 4min and the other, like you said, 10?
I'd like to see the difference,
that makes me even more bummed about not having the new oven right away =[

Shahar, I don't really have the ideal before and after pictures of the transition pizzas go through with shorter bakes. My best description is that the crust has a livelier character. It's puffier, it's got dark and light spots- it has soul 

Don't be bummed, be happy  You manage to produce one of the best pizzas I've ever seen a beginner make and you were/are happy with it.  As you continue to make and enjoy these very good pizzas, just be aware that there are even brighter horizons ahead.

[msheetrit]

Keep up the good work you are learning fast.
It was cold or room temp rise shahar?
Maybe next time put the pizza on the stone i think that the way get even better pizza.
Keep making pizza and keep posting.

[DoughFoSho]

Thanks alot guys!

Micheal, it was a room-temp rise, just like you roll with a Stybel 2. I took your advice [=

I also learned that in order to produce a pie with a puffy crust I'll have to insert larger pie size value in the calculator, so I have more dough to work with,

Because today I made another pie, using the 2nd (and last) ball of this dough batch, and I went (again) for an even puffier, nice and tall crust, BUT I over streched it, because I didn't want to settle for a smaller pie, so I overstreched the dough to a point it got very thin, too thin, forcing the pie to grow bigger, I knew it was risky but I was hoping to get away with it, and I didn't. the pie was torn while baking LOL
I took that risk and was kind of expecting that, but what I was aiming for came out lovely, so I didn't really mind
the crust was beautifuly puffed and tall, WITH A NICE COLOR to it too, this time! because I brushed the crust this time (as I was wishing, as I previously said, I had done with this first pie, to give the crust a nice color), and the pie was perfectly round as well. We still ate the whole damn thing in matter of minutes 

So yeah, in my next batch I'm gonna use larger amount of ingredients so I'll have a nice crust to play with [=

Thanks again guys

[hammettjr]

Shahar, if you're getting watery crushed tomatoes, it will cost a bit more and involve more labor, but buy whole peeled italian tomatoes, remove them from the juice (the juice will be very watery), take out as many seeds as you can and crush them by hand.  The end result will not be too watery.

Very nice pizzas!

Question for Scott, does hand crushing the tomatoes provide better flavor, texture, or both? I haven't tried that yet - my concern was that my pizza would be 'lumpy'.

Thanks,
Matt

[msheetrit]

I think you should try use convection mode in the oven, i use it in the baking procces.
As for the sauce if you cook it after you open the can thats the second time it is been cooking and on the pizza its the third, my advice if you use can and frsh tomatows dont cook it. I think its better.
Tell us about the fermenting of the dough.