Author Topic: Sugar  (Read 1403 times)

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Offline holdem

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Sugar
« on: December 05, 2011, 08:28:06 PM »
What does sugar do to the crust? I see some recipes call for sugar and some don't.


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Sugar
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2011, 09:03:00 PM »

Offline dipizzaepizzerie

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Re: Sugar
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2012, 06:04:52 AM »
What does sugar do to the crust? I see some recipes call for sugar and some don't.
I've always used sugar in the dough to give the baked pizza a brighter golden colour, the same goes for honey. Both are widely used here in itlay for this purpose. They should be added at the end of your kneading, a couple of turns before taking the dough out of the machine,  otherwise they may interfere with the rising process.
Bye daniela

buceriasdon

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Re: Sugar
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2012, 07:05:03 AM »
Welcome to the forum daniela. I don't understand your use of the word interfere in this instance of using sucrose in dough. Interference to me means to hinder, obstruct or or in some way imped an action. My understanding of sugar and it's interaction with yeast is it has the opposite effect, to a certain point. I have read about witholding salt till the very end of the mixing kneading process but never sugar if used. Could you elaborate please?
Don

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Sugar
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2012, 08:18:22 AM »
Daniela,

I also have never heard or read of a requirement that sugar be added late in the dough making process. In the U.S. with respect to pizza doughs, the sugar can be added directly to the formula water (the preferred method for most uniform distribution) or added to the flour and other dry ingredients. Also, ordinary table sugar (sucrose) is a disaccharide that has to be broken down into fructose and glucose for use by the yeast (yeast can only feed off of simple sugars), and also for the Maillard reactions (along with caramelization) during baking of the pizza to produce crust coloration. The cleaving of sucrose into simple sugars can start fairly quickly but can take some time to play out fully and, as such, shouldn't harm yeast performance. Where sugar can inhibit yeast performance is if it is used in amounts large enough to leach fluids out of the yeast cells by osmotic pressure. Usually it takes above 5% sugar for this to happen. In the U.S., most pizza dough recipes do not use more than 5% sugar and, for those that do call for more, the amount of yeast can be increased to compensate for the loss of leavening power due to the yeast damage because of the large amount of sugar. In the U.S., there are also special strains of yeast that can be used for sweet doughs, mostly in the realm of sweet baked goods.

For those who are interested on the role of sugar in dough, see the section "Sugar Transformations (Rosada)" in the article at http://www.theartisan.net/The_Artisan_Yeast_Treatise_Section_One.htm). See also the discussion on sugar in pizza dough in the thread at the PMQ Think Tank at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4669&hilit.

Peter

Offline dipizzaepizzerie

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Re: Sugar
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2012, 07:31:08 AM »
Welcome to the forum daniela. I don't understand your use of the word interfere in this instance of using sucrose in dough. Interference to me means to hinder, obstruct or or in some way imped an action. My understanding of sugar and it's interaction with yeast is it has the opposite effect, to a certain point. I have read about witholding salt till the very end of the mixing kneading process but never sugar if used. Could you elaborate please?
Don

Sorry Don. As you probably have guessed I'm not an English native speaker so I may not use the right words. I used this word on suggestion of an Australian friend and thought the meaning was clear.
Anyway, it's exacly what you said: the sugar, when put in direct contact with the yeast, speeds up the rising time, whereas salt slows it down. In fact you never put the sugar or the salt along with yeast when mixing, but in different moments.
But the difference is that if the salt is compulsory in pizza, the sugar isn't. In Italy a lot of pizza makers add some sugar or honey at the end of the kneading because it gives the baked crust a better colour. This is the only reason we use it.
To my experience and knowledge about pizza making, the problem with the salt is a bit different and more complex as it should be added in two different moments according to the type of flour you use.
If you want you can have a look at my blog: http://www.dipizzaepizzerie.com/
I've dealt with this point and yes some suggest that with "strong" flour, as we call it, it's better to add salt at the end of the mixing process.
Don't know if I've been of any help or not.
Daniela
P.S. What is "formula water"?

Offline dipizzaepizzerie

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Re: Sugar
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2012, 07:42:29 AM »
Daniela,

I also have never heard or read of a requirement that sugar be added late in the dough making process. In the U.S. with respect to pizza doughs, the sugar can be added directly to the formula water (the preferred method for most uniform distribution) or added to the flour and other dry ingredients. Also, ordinary table sugar (sucrose) is a disaccharide that has to be broken down into fructose and glucose for use by the yeast (yeast can only feed off of simple sugars), and also for the Maillard reactions (along with caramelization) during baking of the pizza to produce crust coloration. The cleaving of sucrose into simple sugars can start fairly quickly but can take some time to play out fully and, as such, shouldn't harm yeast performance. Where sugar can inhibit yeast performance is if it is used in amounts large enough to leach fluids out of the yeast cells by osmotic pressure. Usually it takes above 5% sugar for this to happen. In the U.S., most pizza dough recipes do not use more than 5% sugar and, for those that do call for more, the amount of yeast can be increased to compensate for the loss of leavening power due to the yeast damage because of the large amount of sugar. In the U.S., there are also special strains of yeast that can be used for sweet doughs, mostly in the realm of sweet baked goods.

For those who are interested on the role of sugar in dough, see the section "Sugar Transformations (Rosada)" in the article at http://www.theartisan.net/The_Artisan_Yeast_Treatise_Section_One.htm). See also the discussion on sugar in pizza dough in the thread at the PMQ Think Tank at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4669&hilit.

Peter
I've been making pizza in Italy only and I see from the posts in this forum we have different methods not only as far as sugar is concerned. I have so many questions...
What is "formula water"? and what type of yeast do you generally use?
I've used fresh brewer's yeast , or baker's yeast, the most common here.
daniela


buceriasdon

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Re: Sugar
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2012, 08:00:30 AM »
Daniela, I live in Mexico and have no access to fresh yeast so I use Instant Dry Yeast which I mix with the flour before adding to the water to act as a buffer, as I at times dissolve the salt in the water. I always add dry ingredients to wet a bit at a time, sometimes not using all the flour. Other times I keep out some of the water in the formula, same as recipe, dissolve the salt in the reserved water and add towards the end of the kneading time.
Don

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Sugar
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2012, 02:49:13 PM »
Daniela,

You are correct about adding salt at the end of a mix for strong flours. My recollection is that I read that in the FAQ section on salt at the Italian pizza forum at http://www.pizza.it/faq/ingredienti/sale. However, since salt is an antioxidant, one has to be careful not to knead the dough too long, especially at a high mixer speed, since that can cause destruction of the carotenoids and lead to a flour color that is too light. Adding the salt earlier helps prevent that. Prof. Calvel used to get very irritated at French bakers who added the salt at the end of a long and vigorous mix at high mixer speed.

"Formula water" is as Don noted. It is the water in the recipe although I often use the term formulations for baker's percent versions of recipes. In the baker's percent version, the "formula water" is the amount of water by weight and is expressed as a percent of the weight of the flour.

I also use IDY and/or ADY (active dry yeast) since fresh yeast is not sold in any of the supermarkets near me.

Peter

EDIT (9/23/14): For the Wayback Machine version of the above inoperative link, see http://web.archive.org/web/20130117134353/http://pizza.it/faq/ingredienti/sale

Offline dipizzaepizzerie

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Re: Sugar
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2012, 03:50:26 AM »
Daniela, I live in Mexico and have no access to fresh yeast so I use Instant Dry Yeast which I mix with the flour before adding to the water to act as a buffer, as I at times dissolve the salt in the water. I always add dry ingredients to wet a bit at a time, sometimes not using all the flour. Other times I keep out some of the water in the formula, same as recipe, dissolve the salt in the reserved water and add towards the end of the kneading time.
Don
Thanks for your quick reply. I also used to dissolve the salt in the water with some oil and then add the flour, or in my case the flour mix as I used two types of flour mixed together. A last question: why do you change procedure in the mixing in of ingredients? Depending on the season... or what?
Daniela


 

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