Re: Renewed Confusion Over Caputo Flours

[pizzablogger]

To Fred Mortadi.

We are having renewed confusion as to the packaging and specifications of your product.  I realize you have taken the time to answer our questions previously, but some apparent packaging changes have prompted new questions. If you could please clarify the following questions.

1. The 55 pound blue bag of 00 Pizzeria flour can now be found with two different logos (labels) on the bag. Some bags say "Caputo" in the the graphic logo and other bags say "Napoli" in the graphic (see picture below)

Are these the same flours?

If so, have you changed the packaging and which bag will we see going forward?

If they are not the same flours, is one bag actually the Rinforzato flour or is there another difference between the "Caputo" and "Napoli" blue bags of Pizzeria flour?

Are the flours that Caputo distributes to America still the same as they are in Italy and other markets? Previously you had mentioned the Pizzeria flour sold to America is the same as that sold in Italy, the Rinforzato flour sold in America is the same as that sold in Italy and so on. Is this still the case? If not, what are the differences?

Is Orlando foods the only authorized importer of Molino Caputo flours into America, or are there multiple importers that are able to import flour into America directly from Caputo?

Any clarification you could offer to the ongoing confusion with Caputo packaging would be greatly appreciated. Have a nice weekend!   --K

[foolishpoolish]

I e-mailed Caputo directly regarding this subject and received this reply (quoted verbatim):

Dear Mr. Toby

The brand on the bag is different you are rigth, because the Caputo brand is
used from an american producer of cheese from Wiscouncin,
in USA we use the brand Napoli (with same logo, but we write Produced by
Antimo Caputo)
for the flour is the same in alla europe, and is natural that the blu bag is
very near to red bag end we raccomad for long fermentation


thank you

Molio Caputo

[Matthew]

I e-mailed Caputo directly regarding this subject and received this reply (quoted verbatim):

Thanks Toby.  As I previously stated, I have worked with both & noticed a very big difference; that's why I brought it up to my supplier in the first place.  Looks like I was correct when I stated that the blend is different between the two.

Matt

[scott r]

wow...getting even more confusing!   the way I read it is that antimo says its the same as it is in all of europe.   

[parallei]

Confusing is right!  

The brand on the bag is different you are rigth, because the Caputo brand is
used from an american producer of cheese from Wiscouncin,
in USA we use the brand Napoli (with same logo, but we write Produced by
Antimo Caputo)

O.K.  The above is easy enough. There is a Caputo Cheese in the U.S.A., so they had trademark issues and changed the label for the U.S. market.

for the flour is the same in alla europe

He seems says it is the same flour in all of Europe, but could have meant it is the same flour as in all of Europe. Or not.....

and is natural that the blu bag is
very near to red bag end we raccomad for long fermentation

Both blue bags are similar to the red, or only the one in the US market?

My guess (and it is just a guess ) would be that they just changed the label for the US market because of the trade mark thing.

[Matthew]

wow...getting even more confusing!   the way I read it is that antimo says its the same as it is in all of europe.   

"for the flour is the same in alla europe, and is natural that the blu bag is
very near to red bag end we raccomad for long fermentation"

Maybe I'm wrong, but the way I read it, yes he's confirming that the blue is the same in all of Europe.  I think that when he says "is natural" he is saying that naturally the blue bag is very close to the red bag recommended for long fermentation with reference to the product shipped to North America.

Matt

[Jet_deck]

Why is the cheese maker in Wisconsin putting flour in the cheese ?

[JConk007]

  Holy cow cheese. You all made me go look at my Caputo I get the Napoli label at E&S foods allways fresh with many months to spare,  I dont think they get it from Fred / Orlandodo they ? but direct from Caputo no?
or
who cares the stuff is great !! 
John

[Jet_deck]

Why is the cheese maker in Wisconsin putting flour in the cheese ?

To be totally serious for once, I perceived what he wrote to mean that a Wisconsin cheese maker imports the flour with the different label.

[Jet_deck]

Hmmm ?

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f19/caputo-flour-bag-question-15868.html

[foodimp]

Guys,

Sorry to be seeing this so late, but I can easily clear up this confusion.

Here is the deal.

There is a company called Wisconsin Cheese (outside of Chicago) which sells grated cheese and fresh mozzarella among other things, and is owned by a guy named Pasquale Caputo.  They OWN the trademark "CAPUTO" on certain food products within the USA and most of their cheese products are branded "caputo".  When we began shipping "CAPUTO" brand flour here from ANTIMO CAPUTO SRL the mill you all know in Naples, I recevied letters from Chicago lawyers advising me to stop selling these goods, threating infringement of trademark lawsuits.  After some expense and many negotiations, we settled on a new trademark for the USA only -- ANTICO MOLINO NAPOLI, Produced by ANTIMO CAPUTO Srl.

Therefore all 00 Pizzeria Flour shipped to the USA is shipped in this bag.  Orlando Food Sales (my company) handles all imports from the factory in Naples into the USA.  There are sometimes other small importers who want  to try to bypass us and import CAPUTO flour from italy, but Antimo Caputo will not sell them.  Therefore they go to buy it secondhand on the italian market (from customers of caputos) and stick it in their containers coming to the USA.  In those cases we see the "Italian" bag here in the USA.  These are limited instances but like everything else do lend some confusion to the market.  We really cannot control this nore are the volumes anything which we need to lose sleep over. 

I hope this answers the questions, but if not, please reach out and i will respond asap.

Best to all, and thanks for the continued support.
Fred

[foodimp]

Guys,

one very important last thing i totally forgot to mention....  the guy in wisconsin, DID start to import a 00 flour (not made by antico molino caputo) with teh CAPUTO label - it is solid red bag w THEIR caputo logo -- not ours - not italy's.  It is a totally different logo and product.  When we began having success with "our caputo flour" they decided to try and play their Ace card - import a 00 flour from itlay under their rightful and leagl trademark of Caputo.  This product failed miserably and i have not seen it in the trade.

clear?

[parallei]

Fred,

Thanks for the clarification on the label issue.  Just to be clear, the blue "Italian" and "U.S.A." labeled blue Pizzeria bags contain the same flour, correct?

Thanks!

[foodimp]

Sorry, did forget to mention that, YES, they are the same flour.  Both PIZZERIA FLOUR, SAME BAG DESIGN and COLOR w diff logo's as discussed.

[pizzablogger]

Sorry, did forget to mention that, YES, they are the same flour.  Both PIZZERIA FLOUR, SAME BAG DESIGN and COLOR w diff logo's as discussed.

Good to see this has remained the same as you previously mentioned Mr. Mortadi. 

I am sorry to have now pestered you multiple times with questions about your product and appreciate taking time out of your day to answer our questions.

Peter, thank you for helping direct Fred to these posts. Best --K

[foodimp]

no worries, always glad to participate.

[old_spaghetti]

Perhaps you've run across this post from brickovenbaker.com.  Worth a read:

http://brickovenbaker.com/2011/04/faq-whats-the-difference-between-the-caputo-flours/