Author Topic: steve's q and easy ny style pizza  (Read 2842 times)

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Offline patnx2

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steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« on: October 10, 2011, 01:53:36 AM »
Hi I have been making Steve's recipe for about a month, about 5 times.I've had good success with some modification. I use only one half teaspoon of instant yeast and do a six hour rise at 70 degrees, also do a re ball at about 4 hours. I have been using bread flour and now I have some high glutten flour (Pendleton). Is there a different hydration level that I should use or any other changes you would  try? Thanks Patrick
Patrick


scott123

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2011, 06:01:15 AM »
Patrick, as far as NY style recipes go, the one you're working with is not that great. 69% hydration, unless you're working at a high altitude, is too high, and 2 hour 'emergency' rises are notorious for producing tasteless crusts.  I can see how you might be inclined to attempt to correct for the excessive hydration by adding the re-ball, but, it's far better to omit the re-ball and use a more sensible hydration to begin with.  NY style pizza dough should never be re-balled.

I can give you a Pendleton flour based recipe that will be a very close replica of the dough they used in your childhood pizzeria in White Plains, but, without the right oven setup, your end result won't be anywhere close to what you remember. Out of every single facet of pizzamaking, nothing is more critical than having the right bake time- and the right bake time relies entirely on the right oven setup.

Tell me about your oven.  Gas or electric?  If gas, is the burner in the bottom of the oven or do you have a top burner as well? How high does the dial go?  Have you tested the peak temp with a thermometer?  Are you using a peel and stone?  If so, what kind of stone do you have? What are the stone's dimensions?  What is the stone made of?

Online Pete-zza

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2011, 03:02:30 PM »
scott123,

It has been several years since I last tried Steve's Quick & Easy NY style dough, but my recollection is that the recipe produced a pretty decent pizza, especially for an emergency type dough. I even attempted to explain why I thought the pizza was better than many other NY emergency type doughs/pizzas at Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3257.msg27609.html#msg27609. My memory is that the pizza actually had a pretty good crust flavor and also had good color in the crust. Admittedly, some members struggled with a hydration of around 69%, but Steve himself said that he liberally coated the dough balls with flour (Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2790.msg26589.html#msg26589) and many members simply lowered the hydration to enable them to better manage the dough. Steve was not trying to make the "best" NY style pizza. He was trying to make a "fast" NY style pizza, to meet the demands of his family for a really quick pizza.

Peter

scott123

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2011, 03:17:13 PM »
Peter, from reading some of Patrick's old posts, I got the impression that he might be striving towards making something great and authentic, not necessarily something quick and good.  If I'm wrong and he is looking for quick and good, but not great, then he should probably stick with this recipe. Within that context, the Pendleton should work fine, although I still wouldn't re-ball a Pendleton dough because re-balling doughs with that much protein can make the end result tough and leathery.

But, like I said, I think he wants more than what an emergency dough can give him. I could be projecting, though  :)

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2011, 03:34:56 PM »
scott123,

I agree with you that it appears that Patrick was trying to come up with something that was an improvement over the Quick & Easy recipe. I personally do not think that the best way to do that is to take an emergency type dough and make it into something else by changing the amounts of ingredients and the fermentation period. I would rather find another recipe that accomplishes the result directly. Once Patrick answers your earlier questions, I am sure that you will be able to steer him in the right direction.

Peter

Offline patnx2

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2011, 01:45:48 AM »
 Scott 123   Thanks for your detailed responce. I was surprised when you mentioned White Plains. My oven is gas with broiler on top of oven. Max temp is 550 on the dial. I use a 14x15 inch stone which is about one half inch.I do not use a peel but use parchment paper.I do preheat for 45 min.   I do want to make better pizza and have been enjoying the easy ness of Steve's pie. Before that I played with two reinhart recipes.Country style and NY style. My pizza is getting better but not where I want to be. I am patient and only make pies once a week.    I just bought 25 pounds of Pendleton hgf. So help. And thanks again. Patrick   Thanks to Peter for his many helpful posts.
Patrick

scott123

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2011, 03:32:03 AM »
All right Patrick, here is a fairly standard NY style recipe, taking into account Pendleton's absorption value and your 14" stone size.  By the way, you purchased Pendleton Power Flour, correct?

Flour (100%):
Room temp Water (64%):
IDY (.4%):
Salt (1.75%):
Vegetable Oil (soybean) (2%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (169.15%):
193.5 g  |  6.83 oz | 0.43 lbs
123.84 g  |  4.37 oz | 0.27 lbs
0.77 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.26 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
3.39 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
3.87 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.86 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
1.94 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.49 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
327.31 g | 11.55 oz | 0.72 lbs | TF = 0.075

Measure dry (no yeast). Measure wet (+ yeast). Dry into wet.
Knead by hand until well mixed, but no further (2-4 minutes).  Dough should be somewhere between cottage cheese-y and smooth. (Window paning is too far). Scale. Ball and place in lightly oiled containers/proofing boxes. Refrigerate 2 days.  Remove from fridge 2 hours before baking (longer if containers are thick and insulating). Remove from container carefully so as not to deform the dough or rupture any of the bubbles.

Pre-heat your stone on the highest oven setting for 1 hour. The stone should be positioned on an oven shelf that's about 7" from the broiler. With weaker stones, such as the one you have, you probably won't need to use the broiler because the top of the pizza will have plenty of time to brown, but when you get a better stone, you'll want to use the broiler during the bake.

The yeast quantity is going to be a rough ballpark. With my doughs, .5% yeast will double in the fridge in two days.  With your yeast, fridge temp, flour age, water, etc., it could be 1 day or even 3.  You're going to want to shoot for a doubling of the dough, but what's really critical is how the underside of the dough looks.  Ideally, if you have a large wide round clear proofing container, you can take photos of the underside and post them here.
-------------------------------

Now, that's a recipe that you can start using with your current oven setup.  It might take a week or two to get the right amount of yeast for a 2 day ferment, but once you do that, this should give you better results than an emergency recipe.  As I stressed before, though, the oven setup, is, by far, the most important aspect of pizzamaking, and yours needs some pretty serious work. Until you get the right stone, you're destined for good pizzas but never great.

It sounds like your pizza stone is made from cordierite.  1/2" cordierite will never recreate the quality of pizza that you had as a child.  The thinner and less conductive the stone, the longer the bake. As the bake time increases, the oven spring suffers. The best baking material for home bakers seeking to recreate pizzeria quality results is 1/2" steel plate.  You want something like this:

http://www.onlinemetalstore.com/items/A36_Hot_Rolled_Steel_Plate.cfm

except you'll want to find a local source, since it will be a lot less expensive without the shipping charges. An 18" x 18" x 1/2" steel plate should run you anywhere between $30 and $50.  Just look in the yellow pages under metal. Forum member Essen1 (Mike)

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7205

just bought steel plate and he's not that far from you (San Fran area), so you might want to PM him to find out where he went.

What are the internal dimensions of your oven?

Beyond the stone, it's a pain in the butt, but if you're going to move up to the next level of pizzamaking, you've got to get a peel and use it. Getting the right peel can go a long way to make launching a pizza easier. There's a lot of thick clumsy peels out there that make launching miserable.  The only peel that I have used and recommend is the American Metalcraft 18" wood peel:

http://www.wasserstrom.com/restaurant-supplies-equipment/Product_106935

I paid $18 for mine locally.  I'd talk to Mike about this as well, since I think he recently acquired one of these.


I know this is a lot to take in and sounds like a lot of work, but buying steel plate and getting a good peel is not that much of a hassle and the benefits you gain from these pieces of equipment are immeasurable.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 03:45:44 AM by scott123 »

Offline patnx2

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2011, 01:06:21 PM »
Scott thanks again. Off to Reno to win money for new peel. I will reread,practice and more later . You know your pizza and I am so glad you take the time to share. Patrick
Patrick

scott123

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2011, 02:00:43 PM »
Sure thing, Patrick. Good luck!

Offline patnx2

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2011, 05:17:18 PM »
Hi, my dough balls were very, very easy to work with. I made pizza with 6 oz balls and could have stretched to 16 inchs without any tearing. I made 3 pizzas and the result was only fair. The first an 8 minute bake at 550 was pretty but a bit tough. Number two was a bit less done and better. 3 was soft and tasted the best but was white. The dough balls were proofed 24 hours then frozen and latter warmed in frig again for 48 hours before baking. no oil or sugar. next time. Again thanks for the feed back Patrick
Patrick


scott123

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2011, 09:32:56 PM »
Patrick, if at all possible, try not to freeze your dough.   There's ways to make a dough more freezable, but, generally speaking, it's best to avoid it altogether.

This is with the power flour from Pendleton, right? The oil will help a little with tenderness, but may not be sufficient. Go with 3% oil and, instead of kneading to a point between cottage cheese and smooth, knead to only a cottage cheese appearance (2-3 minutes of hand kneading).   Also, drop the water to 63%.  These will all help with tenderness. If you're still getting toughness after this, then we'll try blending the Pendleton with a weaker flour, but, until then, let's see how these tweaks fare.

Offline patnx2

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2011, 12:38:56 AM »
scott123, I froze the dough because of a late decition to go to reno to play poker. I will use your recipe above with oil. The recipe I used had no sugar or oil. Results after sunday,pizza day. Patrick
Patrick

Offline patnx2

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2011, 12:52:56 AM »
pizza nite using Scott123 recipe above with 50 hour cold fermentation and two hour warm up. I made two 8 oz balls and stretched to 12 inches. TF? Baked in 550 degree oven heated for 1 hour. Topped pizzas with 6-1 sauce right from the can,block cheese,a bit of reggiano and pepperoni. The pizza was light and soft with a nice chew and flavor. Rim was a bit flat but nice crispy and my best yet. They baked for 7 minutes . Next time I'll push seven and a half but not much else.
Patrick

scott123

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2011, 12:39:51 PM »
Patrick, 8 oz. stretched to 12" is a thickness factor of .07, which is just about perfect for NY style.  If the rim was a bit flat, then I'd suggest bumping up the dough ball weight to 8.5 oz., which will give you a TF of .075".  Now, bear in mind, .075" is still going to give you a relatively flat rim without the increased oven spring from faster bake times.

It sounds like you're happy, and I'm happy that you're happy  ;D For the immediate future, this recipe should serve you well. But, be aware that there are potentially much brighter horizons ahead, should you get your oven setup in order. If you can get the right stone and trim your bake times to 4-5 minutes, it won't just be a matter of making your best pies yet, but, rather, you'll be entering the hallowed arena of making the best pizza you've ever eaten.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 02:15:24 PM by scott123 »

Offline patnx2

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2011, 01:19:43 AM »
Thanks again Scott123 for the help and hopeful view .No illusions about having arrived but on the way.  I will be looking at bigger stone,steel or at least tiles. I have a warranty and I will see if they can give me advise on boosting temps. The quest  is on. Patrick
Patrick

scott123

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2011, 06:33:30 PM »
Patrick, trust me, no need for tiles, a bigger stone or any kind of temperature boost on the oven.  Just get steel.

Offline patnx2

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Re: steve's q and easy ny style pizza
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2011, 12:22:16 AM »
My latest pizza,no longer Steve's quick and easy, was a great advance with some problems. I made a 16 inch pizza with about 16.5 dough ball made with power flour. About 65% hyd. and 48 hour cold rise. Mixed with resulting 78 degree dough ball straight to the frig. Rise at 70degrees for about 2 hours. Oven at 550 with stone on top shelf. Ball stretched to size and placed on a perforated pan and placed on bottom shelf for 5 minutes then slid on to stone for 4 Min's more. Result was good crust, too much sauce and crust to thin in middle. TF about .078?? Taste great and happy with the doughball. Next time more dough or smaller pizza.Also I used a new fresh motz that was very loose. But progress. Patrick
Patrick

Offline patnx2

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ny style pizza
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2011, 02:31:26 PM »
Three sunday pizzas later and they get better. Changes,recipe from Pizza Dough cal. for 16 inch and 64% pie,one quarter teaspoon yeast and 72 hour cold retard and one teaspoon of oil. Under side is browned pretty good bit crust a bit pale. Last pie was mush, and sausage. Thanks again Patrick
Patrick


 

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