Author Topic: Missing Something???????  (Read 2485 times)

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Offline TomN

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Missing Something???????
« on: December 12, 2011, 07:13:57 PM »
Hello,

My name is Tom and over the years I have enjoyed pizza. Currently, I can purchase pizza products from my warehouse club. I use Pendleton "Power" flour (but have access to Mondako flour). 3 cups flour, 1 1/2 cups water, one packet of instant dry yeast.

For the sauce I am using 7/11 ground tomatoes by Stanislaus. I add saute' sweet onions, garlic, tablespoon of dried Basil and half tablespoon of Oregano. I add two tablesppons of sugar and a table spoon of Virgin Olive Oil. Bring to a boil, let cool down.

Cheese - I use a four cheese blend that consists of low moisture par-skim whole milk Mozarella, Smoked Provolone, Romano and Parmesan.

Pepperoni, mushrooms, red peppers for additional topings.

Bake at 425 in a pizza pan for 15 mins and then take out of the pan onto the rack for an additional 5 mins. (standard home oven)

People like the pizza, but, I AM LACKING SOMETHING??? Can't seem to get that Pizza Pharlor taste. Any suggestions? I would appreciate it.


buceriasdon

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 09:02:46 AM »
Hello Tom, How much salt do you use? Do you feel your crust is lacking in flavor? Have you tried an extended ferment time?  Thank you. Don

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2011, 01:32:27 AM »
increase temp to 500 if possible, add salt to your dough, stop making spaghetti sauce by cooking your sauce, add 1/2t sugar and 1-3t oil, drop your amount of yeast in half, and try a cold ferment.   utilize stretch and fold
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Offline TomN

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2011, 05:27:56 PM »
I have not used ANY salt. wow! I didn't even give it a thought. Thank you for the replies. I will add it to my pizza dough making process. I also gave NO thought to LESS yeast? I will try that as well.

Also, I just purchased a 32 pound bag of Pendleton MONDAKO flour bleached enriched (smallest bag my warehouse club carried). Going to try it today. i am told this flour makes a lighter pizza crust, unlike the Pendleton "Power" flour that makes a thick Chicago style crust. Thank you everyone for all the replies. One day I will have this pizza making down.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2011, 05:37:26 PM »
...unlike the Pendleton "Power" flour that makes a thick Chicago style crust.

Tom,

I am using the Pendleton Power Flour for NY-style thin crusts with great results. Can't complain at all.
Mike

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Offline TomN

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2011, 09:14:52 PM »
Mike,

How are you doing it? I purposely bought the Pendleton MONDAKO on the advice that it was formulated for thin crust. Made some tonight in a pizza pan. However, my dough did not brown enough like the power flour did. Not sure why? I timed it (20 mins) just like with the power flour and even increased the temp to 450 unlike 425 with the "power flour" ??????

Tom

Offline TomN

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2011, 03:19:35 AM »
Mike,

I tired a second pizza this evening made with the Pendleton MONDAKO flour. Only this time, I did not use a pan, just put the dough with sauce, cheese, and pepperoni, right onto the oven rack at 450 temp. It cooked very well. The MONDAKO flour is much lighter and kind of bubbles up in the crust, unlike the Power flour. (A noticeable difference although i like them both) Another problem that i am facing now, is how to get the dough off the wooden cutting board and onto the oven rack without the hard time of sticking dough? A real problem, even though i floured up the wooden cutting board. I think I will ask the dough doctor on this forum.

Offline norma427

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2011, 07:36:54 AM »
Tom,

I received samples of Mondako and Power Flour to try.  I haven’t used the Mondako flour to make a NY style pizza, but did an attempt on a Jet’s pizza using the Mondako flour.  If you are interested the results of that pan pizza they are at Reply 135 and down. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg161819.html#msg161819

I also have used the samples of Power flour, like Mike has, in the Luigi’s thread, and those pizzas if you are interested, are at Reply 568 formula I used and pictures of the process. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg158469.html#msg158469  The dough ball before baking the pizza and other pictures on down at Reply 573http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg158707.html#msg158707

Peter then set-forth a new formulation at Reply 594 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg158788.html#msg158788

Write-up and pictures of using Peter’s formulation at Reply 598 and on down http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg159318.html#msg159318

My last attempt using Power Flour was at Reply 644 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg160007.html#msg160007

If you are having problems with the dough being too sticky, did you try some stretch and folds, or one or more reballs to get the dough more manageable? That method can help dough that is too sticky.  You could also add a little more flour to dust you dough ball.

Do you also have a digital scale?  If you don’t, that could make a difference in the amounts of ingredients you might be using in your dough.  I think most members on the forum do make a NY style pizza baked at higher temperatures than 450 degrees F.

Norma
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Offline TomN

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2011, 02:40:40 AM »
Thank you Norma427,

I will certainly look at all the links that you posted. The problem i have with setting my "HOME" oven to 475 or higher, is that the cheese and toppings seem to cook faster than the dough and thus I am left with an under cooked pizza crust and over cooked cheese and toppings. (I tried the high temp and that is what I experienced). At home, it is easier to make pizza in the pan vs on the rack. I did purchase a pizza stone and will give that a try as well.

Also, I was so excited to try the MONDAKO flour in hopes for the lighter crust experience. However, now that i have tried both, I am really leaning toward the "Power" flour for home use. Particularly with pizza that is baked in a pizza pan. "Power" seems to work the best over the two flours.  With Pendleton Power flour at 15.75 for a 50 lb bag at my warehouse club, this is a great deal. There is talk that they might even bring the pendleton power and MONDAKO in a pre-mixed formula. Can't get easier than that!! i will continue to make pizza at home and practice getting better. However, I now see how important those commercial ovens are if this is your "bread and Butter" as a Pizza business. Thank you again. I am sure that i will have many more questions.

TomN
PS
What I am loving about this whole pizza making experience, is that i am left with plenty of Pizza to eat. LOL
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 02:43:40 AM by TomN »

Offline norma427

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2011, 07:28:36 AM »
Thank you Norma427,

I will certainly look at all the links that you posted. The problem i have with setting my "HOME" oven to 475 or higher, is that the cheese and toppings seem to cook faster than the dough and thus I am left with an under cooked pizza crust and over cooked cheese and toppings. (I tried the high temp and that is what I experienced). At home, it is easier to make pizza in the pan vs on the rack. I did purchase a pizza stone and will give that a try as well.

Also, I was so excited to try the MONDAKO flour in hopes for the lighter crust experience. However, now that i have tried both, I am really leaning toward the "Power" flour for home use. Particularly with pizza that is baked in a pizza pan. "Power" seems to work the best over the two flours.  With Pendleton Power flour at 15.75 for a 50 lb bag at my warehouse club, this is a great deal. There is talk that they might even bring the pendleton power and MONDAKO in a pre-mixed formula. Can't get easier than that!! i will continue to make pizza at home and practice getting better. However, I now see how important those commercial ovens are if this is your "bread and Butter" as a Pizza business. Thank you again. I am sure that i will have many more questions.

TomN
PS
What I am loving about this whole pizza making experience, is that i am left with plenty of Pizza to eat. LOL

Tom,


If you are having problems baking over 475 degrees maybe you might do an advanced forum search and use the members name Pete-zza and search words such as “rack position” or a different combinations of words.  I did an advanced search and came up with many posts for “rack position” from Peter. Peter has done many experiments on different rack positions in a standard home oven.  Maybe you would find a way to keep your cheese from burning and getting a better bottom crust if you want to use you pizza stone.  I think you will like you pizza stone if you do a few experiments with it and also use higher oven temperatures. 

Interesting that you were excited to try the Mondako flour and now are leaning toward the Power flour for home use.  When I called about getting a sample of Power Flour, Alex told me he advises pizza businesses to use Mondako Flour and told me more businesses use the Mondako flour.  Like I posted before I really haven’t tried the Mondako flour out in a NY style pizza yet, so I don’t even know how it performs in a deck oven.  The Pendleton Power Flour at 15.75 for a 50 lb. bag is a really good price!  My daughter told me after Christmas she would take me to a Restaurant store outside of Phila. near Trenton, NJ that does sell Power Flour.  I am excited to go there, but am afraid I will see too many other things I might want.  :-D If all goes according to plan, I will pick up more of the Power flour to try in my regular pizzas for market.  If I have enough time, before I go, I want to try the Mondako flour in my regular formula for market. 

Great to hear that you will continue to make pizza at home and practice.  It even took me a long while to practice and get better about learning to make pizza when I first started making pizza.  Deck ovens do have the mass for a better bake, but there can also be problems of knowing what temperatures to bake at when using different formulas.  My home oven only gets to a little over 500 degrees F, but it still can make a decent NY style pizza.  I do bake on a round pizza stone in my home oven.

Glad to hear that you are loving the whole pizza making experience and you are left with plenty of pizza to eat.   ;D

Norma
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Offline TomN

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2011, 08:33:18 PM »
Thanks Again norma427,

Today, I checked the warehouse club that I have a membership with. The Pendleton "Power" flour 50 pound bag is $16.69 and the 25 pound "power" flour is $8.69. The pendleton MONDAKO flour 50 bag is $15.29 and the MONDAKO flour 32 pound bag is $10.19 (not sure why it does not come in a 25 pound bag) The Pendleton All-Purpose Flour is $12.39 for a 50 pound bag. (Although you would not want it for pizza)

If they get in the Pendleton Pre-Mix in both "Power" and MONDAKO, i will let you know the price. Hopes this gives you a bench mark for what the market prcies should be on Pendleton Flour.  (rumor has it that the flour prices will go down in cost after the holidays)

Offline norma427

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2011, 08:39:02 PM »
Tom,

Thanks for posting the prices for the Mondako and Power Flour!  :)

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Essen1

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2011, 08:47:14 PM »
Mike,

How are you doing it? I purposely bought the Pendleton MONDAKO on the advice that it was formulated for thin crust. Made some tonight in a pizza pan. However, my dough did not brown enough like the power flour did. Not sure why? I timed it (20 mins) just like with the power flour and even increased the temp to 450 unlike 425 with the "power flour" ??????

Tom

Tom,

First off, your temp is too low. Go up to the max your oven can handle. Forget the pan and use a good stone. Heat the stone for at least 45 mins.

Also, I would use weight measurements instead of volume. It's much more accurate and limits inconsistencies in your dough to a minimum.

Here are some pics of a couple of pies I made within the last couple of days with the Pendleton PF.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg164008.html#msg164008

Here's an "emergency" dough I made with the Pendleton PF:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg161635.html#msg161635

Like I said, the flour works like a charm. It's actually one of the best in the industry as far as non-bromated flours go.
Mike

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Offline TomN

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2012, 01:47:02 AM »
I have been talking with several owners, chefs, & employees of "individually owned" pizza shops and pizza chains over the last few weeks. i am finding that it is about a 60 /40 flour difference. About 60 percent use Pendleton Flour MONDAKO for the lighter crust and 40 percent use the Pendleton POWER flour. I also talked with one owner/pizza maker that uses what he calls a "Sticky Dough" and has won awards for his pizza. (I don't even want to imagine dealling with sticky dough)  To my surprise, some of the Pendleton POWER flour pizza makers, use it to make a thin crust pizza instead of a thicker crust style pizza (for which the POWER flour was designed). They just roll the dough out thinner. However, almost everyone said that they can not cook PF MONDAKO in a pizza pan. It just does not work. Then again, they have the commercial ovens to bake MONDAKO. This leave me with a 32 pound bag of PF MONDAKO flour and pizza pans. Fortunately, i have a 25 pound bag of PF POWER flour as well. I have used the MONDAKO before, but it certainly is more work than the POWER.

Finally, I bought a can of Stanislaus, Fully Prepared PIZZAIOLO® "AUTENTICO" PIZZA SAUCE, to save myself time.

http://www.stanislaus.com/products/real-italian-products/ready-products

I think I will stay with the PF POWER. All I have to do now is figure out what to do with 32 pounds MONDAKO flour??????  (LOL)   Any thoughts????

Thanks
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 01:52:50 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Missing Something???????
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2012, 02:01:43 PM »
Thanks for all the replies and comments. I add some photos of my pizza making in the topic called    Cold Rise Dough Method Question?  Please take a quick look. i am getting better at pizza making. Still have a long way to go, but having FUN on the way! Thanks again!!!!!!!!


 

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