Author Topic: thread about digestibility/extended fermentation?  (Read 833 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline android

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 49
  • Age: 35
  • Location: ames, iowa
thread about digestibility/extended fermentation?
« on: December 13, 2011, 01:09:11 PM »
my curiosity was piqued recently when i read somewhere on a thread that pizza dough becomes more digestible when it ferments longer. i cannot find that thread again and forget what the topic was that led to it.

is there a discussion somewhere about biochemical reasoning why the digestibility and what exactly extended fermentation does to the dough?


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22457
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: thread about digestibility/extended fermentation?
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 02:13:17 PM »
android,

Maybe these are the threads you remembered:

Reply 46 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2951.msg26062/topicseen.html#msg26062 ;

Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1942.msg17216/topicseen.html#msg17216 ;

Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1330.msg12136/topicseen.html#msg12136 ;

Reply 24 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,656.msg11520/topicseen.html#msg11520 ;

Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2873.msg24774/topicseen.html#msg24774 ; and

Reply 18 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,970.msg8715/topicseen.html#msg8715.

These are all posts from just one member, Marco (pizzanapoletana). If you do a broader forum search (Advanced and/or Google search) using the terms digestibility and digest, or similar forms, you will get many more hits.

Peter

Offline JimmyG

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 477
Re: thread about digestibility/extended fermentation?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 02:59:51 PM »
Android,
Digestibility of foods and grains is a hot area of research right now in human nutrition (and an area of academic research I am pursuing as well). The best answer I can give is, ...it depends. There are many factors such as time, pH, microbial activity, the number of activated enzymes, inactivated enzymes, water content, the crystalline structure of the carbohydrate, the crystalline structure of the mineral and antinutritional factors (insoluble fibers, phytates, tannins, etc) which may make the protein, carbohydrate, vitamin and minerals either more favorable or less favorable for absorptions. In addition, it also depends on the variety of the wheat, how it is processed, what was the method of cooking, was the pizza browned or charred, in addition to your own endogenous digestive capabilities to break down that food item, whether or not your body needs a particular molecule and can transport it, the efficiency of absorption and your own state of health at the time. I know I left your question vague but much of biology is conditional on the premise, "...it depends". In my professional opinion, any added bonuses from fermentation are going to be extremely minor and most likely offset by anti-nutritional factors produced during maillard formation while baking.
Jim
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

Offline dellavecchia

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2630
Re: thread about digestibility/extended fermentation?
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2011, 03:06:20 PM »
Android,
Digestibility of foods and grains is a hot area of research right now in human nutrition (and an area of academic research I am pursuing as well). The best answer I can give is, ...it depends. There are many factors such as time, pH, microbial activity, the number of activated enzymes, inactivated enzymes, water content, the crystalline structure of the carbohydrate, the crystalline structure of the mineral and antinutritional factors (insoluble fibers, phytates, tannins, etc) which may make the protein, carbohydrate, vitamin and minerals either more favorable or less favorable for absorptions. In addition, it also depends on the variety of the wheat, how it is processed, what was the method of cooking, was the pizza browned or charred, in addition to your own endogenous digestive capabilities to break down that food item, whether or not your body needs a particular molecule and can transport it, the efficiency of absorption and your own state of health at the time. I know I left your question vague but much of biology is conditional on the premise, "...it depends". In my professional opinion, any added bonuses from fermentation are going to be extremely minor and most likely offset by anti-nutritional factors produced during maillard formation while baking.
Jim

Jim - I have heard that fully hydrating the wheat and using a sourdough does not have the same insulin impact on the body as say, commercial white bread. Do you have any data on this?

John

Offline JimmyG

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 477
Re: thread about digestibility/extended fermentation?
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 03:30:06 PM »
John,
Yeah their is plenty of research in this area relating to wheat refinement and the glycemic index (which I personally find criticism with on a lot of different levels). I have never seen any data relating to the hydration though. In essence the argument is, the more unprocessed wheat is, the more difficult it is going to be to digest and extract the sugars in the grain. The less sugar you are able to absorb, the less blood glucose you are going to have circulating, and thereby the less signal you will be sending to the beta cells to release insulin so your tissues can clear it from the blood.
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

Offline kiwipete

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 243
  • Location: New Zealand
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: thread about digestibility/extended fermentation?
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 03:37:27 PM »
Jim - I have heard that fully hydrating the wheat and using a sourdough does not have the same insulin impact on the body as say, commercial white bread. Do you have any data on this?

John

This is correct. There was an article about this in the Canadian Press, July 7 2008.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Health/20080707/sourdough_study_080707/

Peter V.

Offline JimmyG

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 477
Re: thread about digestibility/extended fermentation?
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 03:43:31 PM »
Another point. Less refined flours may not produce as robust of a release of insulin as wonder bread would, however complex carbs will stick around longer in the digestive tract where they will be gradually broken down over 24 hours. This may keep blood sugars and blood insulin slightly higher throughout the day then they would normally had been if you had just eaten the wonder bread, had an insulin spike and let it fall over the course of several hours. So there are always metabolic trade offs, something glycemic index doesn't always account for.
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

scott123

  • Guest
Re: thread about digestibility/extended fermentation?
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2011, 07:51:29 AM »
Android,
Digestibility of foods and grains is a hot area of research right now in human nutrition (and an area of academic research I am pursuing as well). The best answer I can give is, ...it depends. There are many factors such as time, pH, microbial activity, the number of activated enzymes, inactivated enzymes, water content, the crystalline structure of the carbohydrate, the crystalline structure of the mineral and antinutritional factors (insoluble fibers, phytates, tannins, etc) which may make the protein, carbohydrate, vitamin and minerals either more favorable or less favorable for absorptions. In addition, it also depends on the variety of the wheat, how it is processed, what was the method of cooking, was the pizza browned or charred, in addition to your own endogenous digestive capabilities to break down that food item, whether or not your body needs a particular molecule and can transport it, the efficiency of absorption and your own state of health at the time. I know I left your question vague but much of biology is conditional on the premise, "...it depends". In my professional opinion, any added bonuses from fermentation are going to be extremely minor and most likely offset by anti-nutritional factors produced during maillard formation while baking.
Jim

Jimmy, digestibility, in the context of pizzamaking really isn't all that complicated. On one day, make a two hour fermented dough and then eat the whole pie. On the next, make a 24 hour dough and eat that whole pie.  Compare the two feelings.  No matter who you are or what the circumstances might be, the two hour dough pizza will make you feel fuller and sit heavier in your stomach.

This is something that Neapolitans, because they tend to eat pizza so close to bed time, completely understand, but Americans don't- which is why you see countless American pizzerias doing 1-3 hour doughs while most Neapolitan pizzerias do bulk ferments and overnight doughs.

Offline android

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 49
  • Age: 35
  • Location: ames, iowa
Re: thread about digestibility/extended fermentation?
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2011, 11:34:59 AM »
thanks all for the responses. and jimmy, the most popular academic answer ever! 'it depends'....  :D

good information from everyone, this gives me some reading and thinking to do.


 

pizzapan