What IDY percent for a 24h cold ferment pizza dough?

[sallam]

Greetings Tom

I wonder what percentage of IDY should I use if I want to mix then immediately cold ferment my pizza dough for 24 hours in the fridge.
I've watched your

How to make pizza dough

video. There is no mention of IDY percentage used, but in that video, at 1:45, there was a paper showing ingredients and percentages, where IDY showed 0.50%
And in the New York Style Pizza Crust recipe, it mentions "0.5 - 0.75% Compressed yeast" with a note at bottom that mentions "If using INSTANT DRY YEAST (IDY) us only 1/3 the amount as compressed yeast." which amounts to 0.25%

Both the video and the recipe mention that this percentage would take the dough 12 hours in the fridge. So, I'm confused.. is it 0.25% (according the recipe) or 0.50% (according to the video) ?

And if I want to ferment a dough for 24 hours in the fridge, what would the correct percentage be please?

And how to tell when the dough is ready to take out of the fridge? should I wait until it reaches double? what if it didn't? could I take it out anyway and leave it on the counter until it reaches double?

And one other question please: I like to have a good rise in the pizza. What if I shape the pizza right after taking it out of the fridge, top it, then leave it to rise for 1 hour, instead of the 1 hour on the counter before shaping. Would that make for a better risen crust?

Many thanks for your time.

[cosgrojo]

Hi Tom, thanks for joining us!

I don't make pizza like most on the forum, so I will leave the percentage questions to others...

In regards to your other questions, there is no quantifiable "right or wrong" time to take out of the fridge. Members have gotten great results from a variety of different cold rise times. If left in too long the dough can over ferment, but as long as you weren't too aggressive with your yeast, that should take a few days... Shouldn't worry for a 24 hour rise.  

In my opinion, it doesn't have to double in the fridge, in fact mine rarely get much rise in the fridge (depending on how warm my dough was when it went into the fridge). The main thing you are achieving in the cold rise is flavor development, and flour hydration.  

I would hesitate to advise to leave a fully topped pizza out at room temp for an hour. Your rim could develop a dry skin, and if your hydration levels are pretty wet... It would stick to the surface you are resting it on, making it hard to launch with a peel on a stone. I've seen some local pizza places who bake in conveyer ovens on screens place prepared pies in a proofer box for 10 minutes or so to do just what you suggest. If that's your set up, it possible.  Just don't press your rim while you shape, and you should get good puffy rims. There are plenty of shaping videos on YouTube, and probably on this site. It's amazing how just a technique change can shift your whole pizza making paradigm.

Hope this helps,

Josh

[sallam]

Many thanks Josh for your reply. So I shouldn't worry about doubling or not in the fridge.

Regarding shaping first then wait for the rise, I can keep my skins in the home oven for the hour to avoid drying. (I only make 2 16" pizzas).

Another point, regarding when to refrigerate the dough. The video mentions that after mixing, we should immediately divide the dough, arrange in boxes then put in the fridge. But since its about 80 lb, dividing, balling and arranging in boxes would probably take a half hour or even an hour maybe? plus mixing time of 12 minutes, wouldn't that time count as a room temperature ferment prior to the cold ferment? And if I were to make pizzas at home, where my hand kneading takes 5 minutes, with no dividing, should I wait for an equal 1 hour before putting the dough in the fridge?

[cosgrojo]

The cold rise is designed to retard the gas production, so yeah, don't worry about doubling in the fridge.  If it doesn't double at room temp... You have a yeast problem.

So it sounds like you are baking on a pan yes? Just be careful leaving the dough out in a non humidified environment, that could dry it out.  Based on Norma and fazzari's experiments on bulk rising and reballing, I have been letting my dough cold rise in the fridge in a bulk rise and balling it out of the fridge about 3-6 hours before bake time, and leaving it out at room temp... I think it is a quantum leap for short fermented doughs.

I also would place your dough immediately in the fridge after it is mixed. You don't want to have the dough warm up too much, you run the chance of the yeast producing too much has before the fridge cools it down the dough, thus having a dough blow out.

[Pete-zza]

Another point, regarding when to refrigerate the dough. The video mentions that after mixing, we should immediately divide the dough, arrange in boxes then put in the fridge. But since its about 80 lb, dividing, balling and arranging in boxes would probably take a half hour or even an hour maybe? plus mixing time of 12 minutes, wouldn't that time count as a room temperature ferment prior to the cold ferment? And if I were to make pizzas at home, where my hand kneading takes 5 minutes, with no dividing, should I wait for an equal 1 hour before putting the dough in the fridge?

sallam,

You are very perceptive. I discuss many of these issues at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9049.msg78232/topicseen.html#msg78232 and also at Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6106.msg52510/topicseen.html#msg52510. The bottom line is that in adapting a commercial dough recipe to a home environment where far fewer dough balls are made at a time, it is usually necessary to make certain kinds of adjustments. One of such adjustments might be to let the dough balls in a home environment sit for a while before placing in the refrigerator. Some members even go so far as to try to simulate the cross-stacking and down-stacking of their dough balls by leaving the covers for their dough ball containers in their refrigerator partially covered for a period of time and then completely covering the containers by snapping on the lids. Tom Lehmann's long time pal, Evelyne Slomon, also talks about how dough balls in a home setting might be adapted, at Reply 455 at ttp://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg28773/topicseen.html#msg28773.

In my own case with the Lehmann NY style dough recipe, I adjust yeast quantity and/or finished dough temperature based on the time of year and the temperatures that prevail where I live in Texas. Some pizza operators, including Papa John's (according to one of our members who works for PJs), do the same. I have had many Lehmann doughs fail to double during an overnight cold fermentation, so to compensate I make sure the temper time is long enough to allow the dough to rise and become soft enough to open up to form skins.

Peter