New Weber Summit Pizza Oven

[Mark Sawick]

I've been using a similar cruder setup on my smaller grill for over a year with great results. I thought this setup would be more practical and cheaper than a WFO. Amazon had a great deal on the grill. Santa brought a couple of new Fibrament stones for Xmas to complete my oven setup. Trying out my first pie tonight. I believe that I can get the temps in the 650 - 700°F range after a good preheat. I will not be using the rotisserie burner for fear of cracking the top stone. I'm hoping the first attempt will be a success.

[barryvabeach]

Mark,  sure you will like the Summitt, I got one a while back and love it, especially the ignitors.  I played around with it and a cordierite stone, and a steel plate, earlier this year.  I got over 600 pretty quickly, which turned out to be too high for the metal plate, but pretty good for the stone.  I didn't go with a 2 stone setup as your are trying, but did try with and without the rear burner with mixed results. IIRC, the best results I got were with putting the stone in the center,  preheating the stone with all the burners on max, the ones right under the stone and the ones on either side, then turning those burners directly under the stone down a little, and keeping the burners on either side of the stone on max to get some top heat.  I stumbled across an electric pizza oven with switches for the top and bottom elements, and since then haven't used the Summitt much for pizza,  but it did a pretty good job.

[Mark Sawick]

Thanks Barry for your insight. I've found that the key to a good result is temperature management of the bottom stone. I had previously used a 1/2" stone on the metal standoff base with Saltillo tile on top. Through a lot of trial and error and burnt crusts, I learned to keep the temp on the bottom no higher than 650°F. I've had better results with the new grill and some different dough techniques that have allowed good results at higher temps. I'm hoping that this setup will provide even better results.

[Jet_deck]

Good luck on the Maiden test cook tonight.  There is alot of wasted heat on the bottom that can be converted to top heat if necessary.  Let's see how it goes.  What type of flour are you burning at 650 ?  Oil and sugar in the dough?  Can't wait to see the results. 

[Mark Sawick]

My current dough is 60% KABF and 40% KAAP. I was using a little oil but have been getting better results without since bum 8)ping up the temps a little. I would cook at around 625°F on my old setup but with the new grill and dough tweaks I've been gradually increasing. The standoff high of my previous top tiles werea couple inches higher than the new setup. I'm predicting a much quicker cook time.!I used to use a little honey in the mix too but learned that it was a sure way to a burnt crust at the high temps. It seems that the quest for your perfect dough is a never ending endeavor. I have had some great results but always think it could be better.

[scott123]

Mark, with that grill, the only way you're going to achieve respectable top browning with fast Neapolitan-ish/Neo-NY-ish bakes is to use the rotisserie/infrared burner.  Your gut feeling that the top stone might not survive the infrared is probably correct.  Lose the top stone and use the rotisserie.  Here's how it's done:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9614.0.html

I don't think Craig talks about the flour he uses in that thread, but I'm relatively certain that it goes back to when he was uses KAAP for Neapolitan.

You may not need blankets to hit 775 on the hearth.  You may not even want to go as 775 and make something a little more NY-ish, 4 minute-y.  But, you will want to be in that less than 5 minute realm, and, to achieve that, a suspended stone ceiling won't cut it. Rotisserie burner, for the win.

[Mark Sawick]

Thank you for the excellent input Scott and Craig's link. I'm sure that there will be some evolution as this project progresses. Tonight is the first test. I had good results with my last setup. Hopefully this will be a good progression forward.

[Mark Sawick]

The first pie was actually pretty good for the new setup. I would leave it on a little longer in the future. After an hour preheat the bottom temp was at 725°F and the top was at 660°F. I backed off rhe center heat at around 45 minutes. This grill has an extra sear burner in the middle which could help boost the heat. I pre cook the shell for 15 seconds prior to topping to avoid any mishaps transferring the topped pizza to the stone. This pie cooked for 4 min 10 sec. It could have went a bit longer or hotter. Overall I was not disappointed with the finished product. I will fiddle with the times and temp to dial it in further.

[Mark Sawick]

Bottom after 4min 10sec at 725°F

[scott123]

Mark, that's not bad.  It's a little pale on the top, but, considering your setup, I'm impressed.

If you're happy with 4 minute bakes, then I'm going to give you a piece of advice that I almost never give- use a screen. A screen will handicap the bottom heat a bit- if you go longer with your preheat (maybe 90 minutes) and push the temp to 750 or higher, you'll get better color on top, and the bottom, because of the screen, won't burn.

You also, if you think you're going to stay with the stone ceiling, should find a way of supporting it with less thermal mass. Firebricks suck an unbelievable amount of heat out of  system such as this. Four kiln posts will do the trick with much less mass.

What hydration are you working with?

[Mark Sawick]

Scott, I agree that I pulled this out a little premature. I was a little gun-shy with the new setup and higher temps. But I think I can get better results using input from people like yourself. I have the ability to use some more BTUs with this grill. I've also thought of insulating the lid to increase efficiency. There's about a half inch of space between the walls. I want to keep the grill in a natural looking state. I hadn't considered the sinking effect of the fire brick. Would I get pillars at a ceramic supply source?

I just started trying to get a more precise measurent for dough recipe on this batch. I believe that the hydration is about 65%. I'll know for sure on next week's batch. I make a 3 x 16oz batch every week. I realize that precise measurement is vital for consistent outcome.

[Jet_deck]

......A screen will handicap the bottom heat a bit- if you go longer with your preheat (maybe 90 minutes) and push the temp to 750 or higher, you'll get better color on top, and the bottom, because of the screen, won't burn....

Is the cup half full or half empty ?  Would it not be more simple to increase the top heat than to retard the bottom? 

[Mark Sawick]

I cooked another pizza for lunch today. Got the bottom to 745°F and the top to 690°F. Cooked in about 4 minutes. The top was done a little more than last night's. Overall I was very happy with today's pizza. It had a great texture for me. These temps are about a hundred degrees hotter than what I'm normally used too. For only 2 pizzas, I have been pleased. I do think that I will try replacing the fire bricks with posts to reduce the mass. The goal was to try and get a nice and easy, not overly complicated setup. With a few tweaks here and there and better familarization with regulating the temperatures, I think I will be close.

[buceriasdon]

Mark, Very nice, I'd be very happy with that pizza. Have a good new year.
Don

[scott123]

Mark, there's a pretty wide variety of opinions when it comes to char, but, for me, the bottom of your latest pie is a bit too much.

You had talked about making things easy for yourself, and, out of removing the ceiling and using the infrared, vs. purchasing kiln posts (or other tweaks), removing the ceiling is probably a lot easier.  You will need to turn the pizza as it cooks, as the rotisserie burner is directional, but that's not that difficult to do with the right peel.

To me, that's the easiest, and it gives you the fullest control over the top and bottom browning, because both will have independent heat sources- the bottom, the pre-heated stone and the top, the IR burner.

If you do want to go the kiln post route, then, yes, any ceramic supplier will have them.