Author Topic: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven  (Read 10282 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #80 on: February 05, 2012, 09:29:30 PM »
At least I used fresh cake yeast this time and the dough does look like it is fermenting at room temperature. 

Norma
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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #81 on: February 06, 2012, 09:56:30 AM »
The little brown spots are the ground baked gluten, correct?

And they go away as the dough ferments - or only after it is baked?

CL
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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #82 on: February 06, 2012, 10:28:06 AM »
The little brown spots are the ground baked gluten, correct?

And they go away as the dough ferments - or only after it is baked?

CL

Craig,

Yes, the brown spots are the ground baked gluten from one MM clone dough and one MM dough. 

The ground baked gluten didnít go away as the dough fermented last week. The ground baked gluten still showed on the skin when opening it last week, but it couldnít be felt.  Only during the bake did the ground baked gluten disappear.  I wanted to see this week if I didnít add anything else to make the dough tan (like molasses or dry malt) if the dough still would be tan.  The dough did become tan from the ground baked gluten.  I will see if it goes away during the bake tomorrow.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #83 on: February 07, 2012, 09:42:16 PM »
I find it interesting how a few changed ingredients can makes big changes in the way a pizza turns out.  The AP and cake flour pie with ground baked gluten tasted altogether different than any of the pies in this thread.  This pizza tasted like it was made with whole wheat flour.  The bottom crust on this pie also browned better and had a nice crunch when biting it.  It can be seen in the dough ball and skin that the ground baked gluten was still there, before the bake, and after the bake in this pizza a little of the baked gluten could be seen.  This dough ball was really easy to open.

I know I wonít ever be able to make this same pizza again, because I donít have anymore MM dough to play around with to make the ground baked gluten.  I had posted in the MM thread that the baked gluten had tasted nutty.  This crumb had the nutty taste, but also tasted like wheat.  

I made some fresh ricotta last evening from Craigs thread and it was used to dress this pie.  

Norma
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 09:55:57 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #84 on: February 07, 2012, 09:43:07 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #85 on: February 07, 2012, 09:44:19 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #86 on: February 07, 2012, 09:45:20 PM »
Norma
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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #87 on: February 07, 2012, 09:46:21 PM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #88 on: February 07, 2012, 09:48:56 PM »
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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #89 on: February 07, 2012, 09:50:17 PM »
Norma
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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #90 on: February 07, 2012, 09:51:43 PM »
Norma
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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #91 on: February 07, 2012, 09:52:36 PM »
Norma
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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #92 on: February 07, 2012, 10:06:24 PM »
Norma,

Your latest pizza looks pretty nice to me. Did you like it?

Can you tell me what amounts of all-purpose flour and cake flour you used?

I think you could use the gluten from an MM clone dough although it may be impractical and inconvenient to do that simply to create a form of gluten (baked and ground) that is nutlike in flavor. As you know, it takes a pretty large dough ball just to get a small amount of gluten.

Peter

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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #93 on: February 07, 2012, 10:38:50 PM »
Norma,

Your latest pizza looks pretty nice to me. Did you like it?

Can you tell me what amounts of all-purpose flour and cake flour you used?

I think you could use the gluten from an MM clone dough although it may be impractical and inconvenient to do that simply to create a form of gluten (baked and ground) that is nutlike in flavor. As you know, it takes a pretty large dough ball just to get a small amount of gluten.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for saying the latest pizza looked pretty nice to you.  Steve, Randy, a few taste testers and I did really liked this pizza. I gave one customer a slice of this pizza and she really liked it too.  I like the taste of whole wheat pizzas, but canít ever get them right, but the ground baked gluten took care of that.

I took the easy way out and used 200.49 grams of regular Shurfine AP and 67 grams of King Arthur cake flour.  I donít know how that mixture of flours made the dough feel like it did, but somehow it did.  How would you have thought the dough would have felt?  I had posted before that when mixing this dough, it came together like using a much higher protein flour.

I know it takes a pretty large dough ball just to get a small amount of wet gluten.  I might play around with ground baked gluten from an MM clone dough ball in another thread sometime.  I thought it was interesting how the crumb had a wheaty and nutty taste. 

Norma
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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #94 on: February 08, 2012, 10:33:14 AM »
I took the easy way out and used 200.49 grams of regular Shurfine AP and 67 grams of King Arthur cake flour.  I donít know how that mixture of flours made the dough feel like it did, but somehow it did.  How would you have thought the dough would have felt?  I had posted before that when mixing this dough, it came together like using a much higher protein flour.


Norma,

Based on the Nutrition Facts that I found at the website of the company that sells the Shurfine all-purpose flour, it looks like the nominal protein content of that flour is 10%. I ran that number together with the protein content of the King Arthur cake flour through the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/, and it appears that the protein content of the blend is just shy of 9.5%. That is equivalent to the protein content of a pastry flour. I don't recall that you indicated the hydration value you used, but if it was like the earlier efforts in this thread (60%?), then I would expect the dough to be soft and extensible and, absent any stretch and folds and the like, to be a bit on the sticky or tacky side.

I am curious whether you used any sweetener in the latest dough. Doughs made with pastry flours and cake flours tend to lack top crust browning. Or maybe it is your oven that provided the browning of your pizza.

Peter

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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #95 on: February 08, 2012, 01:26:32 PM »
Norma,

Based on the Nutrition Facts that I found at the website of the company that sells the Shurfine all-purpose flour, it looks like the nominal protein content of that flour is 10%. I ran that number together with the protein content of the King Arthur cake flour through the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/, and it appears that the protein content of the blend is just shy of 9.5%. That is equivalent to the protein content of a pastry flour. I don't recall that you indicated the hydration value you used, but if it was like the earlier efforts in this thread (60%?), then I would expect the dough to be soft and extensible and, absent any stretch and folds and the like, to be a bit on the sticky or tacky side.

I am curious whether you used any sweetener in the latest dough. Doughs made with pastry flours and cake flours tend to lack top crust browning. Or maybe it is your oven that provided the browning of your pizza.

Peter



Peter,

Thanks for looking what protein level Shurfine AP flour is, and using the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator to find out what the blend of Shurfine AP and King Arthur Cake flour together made the protein level.  9.5% of protein is low for a pizza dough.  The dough wasnít sticky at all and didnĎt need any stretch and folds.  I used 60% (160.49 grams) water in the formulation again, but added 12 more grams of water after the dough felt too dry as I posted at Reply 79 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17128.msg170848.html#msg170848 

I did use regular sugar in this last formulation.  The sugar amount was 5.06 grams for a 14Ē pizza.  This recent pizza only browned a little on the rim, but did brown well on the bottom crust.  Maybe the baked gluten helped with what appeared to be browning. It could have been the deck oven that provided some browning. I am not sure what happened.

Norma
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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #96 on: February 08, 2012, 02:06:46 PM »
Norma,

I am so used to staring at printouts of dough formulations, I completely forgot about the dried baked gluten that you added. Out of curiosity, I went back to the Mixed Mass Conversion Calculator and tried to take the dried baked gluten into account. For that purpose, I assumed that all of the dried baked gluten was protein, namely, glutenin and gliaden (100%). I don't know if that premise is correct (see more on this below) but, if it is, then it looks like the total protein content of the Shurfine all-purpose flour, the King Arthur cake flour, and the dried baked gluten woul be around 13.6%. If your total water was 172.49 grams, then the final hydration number would have been about 61.6%. If my numbers are correct, or nearly so, then that might help explain why your dough was not sticky or tacky.

As a backup check, I made a second assumption--that your dried baked gluten had a protein content of 65%, which is typical of vital wheat gluten. After all, vital wheat gluten is dried wheat protein of high-gluten, hard wheat grain that has had all of the starch removed and is then dried. With this assumption, the total protein content of your blend would be 12%. A hydration of 61.6% with that blend would also be a workable value, without yielding a dough that is sticky or tacky.

Peter

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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #97 on: February 08, 2012, 02:58:46 PM »
Norma,

I am so used to staring at printouts of dough formulations, I completely forgot about the dried baked gluten that you added. Out of curiosity, I went back to the Mixed Mass Conversion Calculator and tried to take the dried baked gluten into account. For that purpose, I assumed that all of the dried baked gluten was protein, namely, glutenin and gliaden (100%). I don't know if that premise is correct (see more on this below) but, if it is, then it looks like the total protein content of the Shurfine all-purpose flour, the King Arthur cake flour, and the dried baked gluten woul be around 13.6%. If your total water was 172.49 grams, then the final hydration number would have been about 61.6%. If my numbers are correct, or nearly so, then that might help explain why your dough was not sticky or tacky.

As a backup check, I made a second assumption--that your dried baked gluten had a protein content of 65%, which is typical of vital wheat gluten. After all, vital wheat gluten is dried wheat protein of high-gluten, hard wheat grain that has had all of the starch removed and is then dried. With this assumption, the total protein content of your blend would be 12%. A hydration of 61.6% with that blend would also be a workable value, without yielding a dough that is sticky or tacky.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for going back to the Mixed Mass Conversion Calculator again and taking the dried baked gluten into account.  I would think the dried baked gluten of the MM clone dough and the MM dough would only contain glutenin and gliaden, but sure donít know. I can now see how the low protein flour blends I used in combination with the ground baked gluten and the hydration all worked okay if the final hydration number was about 61.6%.  I now understand why the dough was not sticky or tacky. 

Maybe the dried baked gluten is something like vital wheat gluten.  I sure donít know if it is or not.  I sure donít know if I dried it properly or not.  I think vital wheat gluten is made by drying in tumblers, or something like that.

I want to try and play around with dried baked gluten in another formulation sometime.

Thanks for doing the calculations and your thoughts.

Norma
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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2012, 08:21:27 AM »
Yesterday I mixed another dough.  This time I used 167 grams of pizzeria flour and 100 grams of AP flour.  I did use sugar and oil in the formula.  I also added 2 grams of ground baked gluten from my recent baked gluten test at Reply 44  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17632.msg171525.html#msg171525  The dough mixed well and the dough ball feels nice.

Norma
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Re: Caputo based Pizza trying to be made in a deck oven
« Reply #99 on: February 15, 2012, 01:14:48 PM »
The pizza using the ingredients of Caputo flour, AP, and ground baked gluten sure turned out differently, but good.  The rim of the crust almost tasted like Ciabatta.  The dough was very soft and easy to open.  The flecks of ground baked gluten could be seen in the dough.  The taste of the crust was good and the bottom of the crust browned well.

I had some leftover homemade ricotta from last week and froze it to see if it would still be good this week.  I had wanted try to make some homemade ricotta with the Wine Vinegar that I purchased later last week and some raw milk, but time got in the way on Monday night, so I just defrosted the ricotta from last week on Tuesday.  When stirred, the ricotta from last week became just as creamy as last week and still was good.  The dressings for this pie were the unfrozen homemade ricotta, a blend of mozzarellas, some dollops of Cento, (with some added herbs) some prosciutto (not cut neatly), dried cherries, and sesame seeds sprinkled on the rim.  This sure was a different blend of dressings for me, but tasted good.  The added sesame seeds on the rim also gave the flavor of the crust another dimension.  I got the idea of adding sesame seeds on the rim from Best Pizza in Brooklyn, when I visited Best Pizza. 

Norma
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