Author Topic: My first experiment of dough  (Read 5185 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2012, 07:53:32 AM »
BTW,Peter,can you give some tricks on how to distinguish a four is high gluten or not?for example,by see or touch.

Gray,

I recall some time ago reading an article in which the chef said that she could tell different flours apart by feel and possibly other characteristics (maybe color). I never had to develop that skill since I usually know a fair amount about the flours that I (and others) use, either through flour specifications or other sources, including this forum.

There are also tests that can be conducted on basic doughs to get an idea as to gluten content. You can read about them at Reply 23 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,783.msg7865/topicseen.html#msg7865. Again, I never had a need to conduct tests like these to determine gluten content, even on a relative basis. However, I am thinking of asking Norma to consider such tests for some Mellow Mushroom dough balls that she now has in her possession.

Peter


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2012, 02:22:03 PM »
Gray,

Congratulations! The journey begins....don't worry too much about the color or other issues you mention,Peter will probably fix that in just one post...he is awesome!

When you said "result is out of my thought", I almost lost my coffee through my nose from laughter!!  :-D
Your bake procedure sounds like it worked pretty good for you. How was the bottom of the pie? Glad to see you have something we can work with now.  Good job!

Bob
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Offline grayman

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2012, 08:15:52 PM »
Bob,

Thanks for your comment and encouragement,I will go ahead.
And the bottom of the pie,I do not get this in mind since I do not know it is a factor to inspect a pie before.But I recall one point that it is not easy for me to cut up with my pizza rolling cutter.and we could fold the slice.

Sorry for my inaccurate phrase make you laughing... :-D Maybe unexpected would be my actual meaning,I think you should know,hah...
Since I am not native in English you know,please forget it.
And let me bring to another phrase "people mountain people sea",could you imagine?
Just like the below pictures show Apple open to sell its iphone here last week.(Apple suspend the sale after one day.)

Gray

Offline grayman

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2012, 08:24:50 PM »
Gray,

Can you get more information on the flour you have been using?

Peter

Peter,

I do not get more information about flour now,since last attempts are using some separated bags flours,I am not sure if they are real or not.
But I will purchase one big bag Golden Statue Brand flour from the distributor to go on,it is from Lam Soon Hong Kong Group. (http://www.lamsoon.com/en/index_en.aspx)

Gray

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2012, 01:05:04 PM »
Gray,

Being able to fold a pizza slice on this type of dough is a good thing.And if you can hear a nice crisp crackling sound when you run your pizza cutting wheel across the pie, that is a most excellent thing!! Keep up the good work, Gray, I have a feeling this is not going to take you very long.

Please don't apologize for your word phrasing...I am enjoying it!
People mountain people sea in English is phrased as...a sea of people.
That photo of the crowd outside the Apple store is amazing! Some people here in the U.S. would also maybe use the phrase....monkey see monkey do! No disrespect intended,Gray...it's just something we say when people do something only because others are doing it too.  Gotta have that i-phone!! ;D

Bob
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 11:05:22 AM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline grayman

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2012, 11:47:49 PM »
Bob,

Thanks for explanation about what is a good crumb and "this is not going to take you very long".You know your kind encourage is very important to a newbie :D

And the coming days in China will be crowd and happy days too,since Chinese lunar new year is coming.
Happy New Year!

Gray

Offline grayman

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2012, 10:16:29 PM »
Peter,

We make 4 doughs as below formulation to make a side-side comparison:
#1, bread flour 100%, water 58%, IDY 0.3%, salt 1.5%, sugar 2%;
#2, bread flour 100%, water 58%, IDY 0.3%, salt 1.5%, no sugar;
@40F,cold fermentation 69 hours to use

#3, bread flour 100%, water 58%, IDY 0.7%, salt 1.5%, sugar 2%;
#4, bread flour 100%, water 58%, IDY 0.7%, salt 1.5%, no sugar;
@freeze 24 hours,then cold ferment 45h to use

all baked at 480F about 8 minutes near the bottom side in my simple electric oven.
after the comparison,I can think that these doughs are better than before,and thehydration and yeast level could work,but there are severl questions want to ask:
1, all the rim(no matter the dough adding sugar or not ) look so white although I coat some oil before baking,any suggestion to the rim look more golden?
2, we think that the frozen balls are more good since they get chewy crumb and the straigh cold ferment balls are quite crisp and less airy in it.any comment over it?

thanks in advance!

Gray

Online Pete-zza

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2012, 02:59:38 PM »
Gray,

From what you report, it sounds like you are not getting enough top heat, quite possibly because of the low oven temperature you have been using (480 degrees F) and possibly the oven itself. Once the bottoms of the pizzas are baked to your satisfaction, you might try lifting the pizzas to a higher oven rack position to get more top heat to provide more color on the rims. You might even have to turn the broiler on for a brief period. If those measures don't work, you may have to consider possible modifications to your oven or use a different type of baking medium (a better stone or use of steel as a baking surface) or use different oven rack positions. Ultimately, these kinds of problems should go away once you get a commercial oven.

The differences between the two sets of dough balls is likely due to the different fermentation periods and the low oven temperature. Freezing dough balls get very little fermentation--they get some initially as they cool down (and then become frozen) and again when the dough balls defrost and warm up prior to using. While the dough balls are frozen, they get no fermentation whatsoever. So, several hours of the 45 hours that the defrosting dough balls spend in the refrigerator are spent defrosting. By contrast, the other dough balls that were not frozen get 69 hours of fermentation time. The different amounts of fermentations produce different amounts and types of fermentation byproducts that contribute to the color, flavor, taste, aroma and texture of the finished crusts. The oven comes into the picture because you need a lot of heat to get good oven spring. That applies to both sets of dough balls.

Peter

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2012, 01:20:31 PM »
Peter,

That was an excellent post(as always)....thank you.

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Online Pete-zza

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2012, 01:33:55 PM »
Peter,

That was an excellent post(as always)....thank you.

Bob

Bob,

You're welcome. I only hope the explanation is correct and helps solve Gray's problems.

Peter

Offline grayman

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2012, 03:56:18 AM »
Peter,

I found one "Bread Improver",ibis 300,of Lesaffre from the market yesterday,it said it could "improve dough strength and give more shinning golden brown crust" and "adapted to different types of flour".

Do you know such products ever and if it could real work?

Gray

Offline grayman

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2012, 10:39:46 PM »

Peter and Norma,

I mixed some doughs recently,and I found that there are some difference when I took the dough out from the refrigerator and let them warm up at room temperature for different hours(for example,open the dough after half  hour,one hour, two hour and more), I could not say out which warm up time is perfect?
Meanwhile there is a question that how to settle the warm up time to get the dough in good situation to fit the customers' sporadic order? Any comments over it would be appreciated!

Gray

Online norma427

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2012, 07:49:22 AM »
Gray,

These are only my experiences with the dough I regularly use at market.  The market temperatures can vary very much in temperature depending what season of the year it is in our area.  What I have found with my regular dough balls is I need to watch them when sitting out at whatever room temperature it is to see if they are ready to be opened or see if they might be fermenting too much.  My dough can be opened right out of the fridge, if need be, but is harder to open and might develop bubbles in the middle.  I can take care of the bubbles with a bubble popper.  If my dough looks like it is fermenting too fast, then I just put it back into the fridge and open it without a lot of warm-up time.  I have never found a perfect time to open dough balls, because market temperatures are never the same. I rely on how the dough balls look and how the dough is fermenting, even on experimental dough balls.

I believe you will learn after practice about when to open your dough balls, and when they look warmed-up enough.  That usually comes from experience and watching.  Each dough might behave differently depending on if oil is added in higher amounts, yeast amounts, hydration, room temperature, and other variables.  It still is a guessing game for me sometimes when an experimental dough might be ready. 

Norma

Online Pete-zza

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Re: My first experiment of dough
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2012, 10:04:26 AM »
Gray,

What Norma says is correct. Technically, you can use the dough balls when they reach a temperature of around 56 degrees F. However, I prefer that they be higher than that. Also, in a commercial environment, it is hard to use dough temperature as a guide as to when to use the dough balls. Most pizza places learn over time how many dough balls they will use in a given period and simply remove that number of dough balls from the cooler about an hour or two beforehand, depending on the room temperature. Once the dough balls are ready to use, they will last a few hours longer.

If you are not doing a steady business of making pizzas, it can be difficult to make pizzas to order, one by one. If your volume of pizzas is low, then you may have to look to other solutions for meeting the needs of your customers.

Peter


 

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