Author Topic: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie  (Read 32835 times)

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Offline Arctic Pizza

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #180 on: April 20, 2014, 10:28:32 PM »
I agree with your observations, especially with the noted sweetness of the dough. Now that I think about it, I'm due for a trip to L & B! :-)
What size pan did you use and what was the temp & bake time? Did you roll out the dough to simulate the sheeter they use at L&B?

I used a regular 18" x 26" steel sheet pan which approximates half pan at l&b.  i set the temp at oven max on a pizza stone at bottom level of oven.  I will elaborate on this more later re: sauce and cheese, but the key is to not really overcook/burn the tomatoes and romano on top.   


Offline Chaze215

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #181 on: April 20, 2014, 10:42:51 PM »
Got it. I'm looking forward to your workflow and details. Keep up the good work! BTW, are you in the NY/NJ area?
Chaz

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #182 on: April 20, 2014, 10:53:59 PM »
Arctic Pizza,

On the matter of the effects of salt and sugar on each other, you might find this post of interest:

Reply 777 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg161018#msg161018

Peter

Offline Arctic Pizza

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #183 on: April 20, 2014, 10:58:43 PM »
Got it. I'm looking forward to your workflow and details. Keep up the good work! BTW, are you in the NY/NJ area?

I'm in Manhattan.  This is my mission for the next few months! 

Offline Arctic Pizza

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #184 on: April 20, 2014, 11:06:07 PM »
Arctic Pizza,

On the matter of the effects of salt and sugar on each other, you might find this post of interest:

Reply 777 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg161018#msg161018

Peter


Thanks!  Interesting topic on the interaction of sugar/salt.  Combinations of flavors are important.   Also, there's another thing called umami, which is considered the "5th taste", like that sense of what you crave or think about independent of taste buds taken independently. 



Offline nickr

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #185 on: April 23, 2014, 11:01:26 AM »
I'm convinced that the dough has lard in it. As for milk, I'm not so sure. The crumb is very soft, and very tender. Is is possible that they use some potato flour?

Offline Arctic Pizza

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #186 on: April 29, 2014, 09:34:01 PM »
I'm convinced that the dough has lard in it. As for milk, I'm not so sure. The crumb is very soft, and very tender. Is is possible that they use some potato flour?

There's no way to get the crumb with any traditional flour/water/yeast/salt ratio.  It must contain dairy and other ingredients.  The pictures on this thread look nice, but L&B not a neapolitan style crumb.  It's like a crispy yet cakey/donut/white bread.

Last recipe i tried was getting there,  but experimented with few changes.


2 tsp active dry yeast


switched from dry milk to real milk
3/4 lukewarm
1/4 cup warm water

upped the sugar
1/4 cup white sugar

added an egg this time.
1 egg

1 tbsp salt

added 1/4 cup shortening

3 1/2 cups all-purpose flour

24 hour cold rise. 

This is real close.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 10:44:32 PM by Arctic Pizza »

Offline Arctic Pizza

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #187 on: April 29, 2014, 09:48:57 PM »
the addictiveness is from the relatively sweeter dough and very sweet tomatoes, and very sharp romano, a naturally high level of glutamate.

i've been using redorta and san marzano.  you don't want to cook down the tomatoes much, but need to puree them with a hand mill and add salt, pepper, oregano.  do NOT put in garlic or onions, it will ruin the sweet/salt profile.  I cook down the tomatoes for 30 minutes with a little olive oil, no tomato water.  must be drained.  The key is to not cook the tomatoes too long and let it's natural sweetness come through.  i taste the tomatoes, if it's sour, add some corn syrup.  tomatoes will be more acidic the less you drain them of it's tomato water.  try to remove as much as possible.

i am using deli sliced low moisture mozz cut 1/4".  you want alot of good fresh grated pecorino romano.  this is where the saltiness and glutamate (umami) really cuts through the sweetness.

I bake it on a stone.  Do not broil it ever.  the romano should never turn brown.  crust should crisp, and the top should be steaming hot but not burnt. 


« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 10:45:35 PM by Arctic Pizza »

Offline nickr

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #188 on: April 30, 2014, 01:16:25 PM »
What thickness factor are you using?

Offline 9slicePie

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #189 on: July 29, 2014, 10:28:33 AM »
I've seen youtube videos of L&B, and I'm also sooo curious how they maker their sauce.  I heard that there are 2 tomato products that go into it.


Offline ron.ck722

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #190 on: September 02, 2014, 02:29:01 AM »
A retired Electronics Engineer, raised on Niagara Falls' defunct Trusello's Pizza, I got a kick from the "Reverse Engineering Spumoni Gardens" thread. My wife heard about the Spumoni Garden on TV the day before I decided to investigate them on this forum.

Quite familiar with reverse engineering electronic and mechanical systems, I hadn't heard the term applied to pizza. If it's done with wine and perfume, why not pizza?

Pictures can't describe taste or texture, but the Garden's Sicilian pizza looked very similar to Trusello's. I tried duplicating Nate's April 3rd Reply 166 recipe and immediately ran into a roadblock. Having never baked anything other than pre-fabbed Pillsbury Doughboy sugar-topped cinammon rolls when the kids were young, I couldn't understand any of the baking terminology or whether the ingredients were by volume or weight (my wife, an excellent cook, bakes only occasionally. Her mother baked bread almost daily. We were 16 and I was too blinded by love to realize my mother-in-law hadn't passed along her baking expertise).

Back to pizza - when I used volume, I came up with ~ 2.6 cups of hydration added to 4 cups of flour. Didn't make sense, so I tried weight (or density), which gave me ~ 0.73 cups of hydration added to 4 cups of flour. Much more plausible.

Since my usual sauce must be seed-free and Albertsons had no San Marzano tomatos, I discovered, bought and tasted some strained Pomi uncooked, and it was fine to my second generation Italian-American taste buds. I understand the Pomi reviews are mixed. My wife insisted on a quick, 10 minute sauce sizzle in olive oil, the method used by our late dear friend from Naples. I'll try pomi uncooked the next time.

I also never realized until I'd watched the "Man versus Food" YouTube episode at the Spumoni Garden that there was an almost invisible layer of Mozzerelo cheese under the sauce to keep it from sogging up the bread.

The finished pizza was suprisingly good - a little thinner than desired, partially because I'd only allowed a 2 hour rise and partially because I hadn't made enough dough. But was good enough to quell any thoughts of buying frozen dough or finished pizzas for a while.

I'm hooked and can't wait to refine my technique. Later I'll add some Boar's Head or Grandpa's Cheese Barn Pepperoni. That's another 15 year search, recently culminated - a suitable replacement for the Patrick Cudahy Margherita pepperoni (sticks only - no slices, please) of my youth.

I've also never heard of Sicilian Eggplant Caponata on a pizza. I'll look for a thread.

Many thanks to Nate, Norma, Chaze215, Bobino414 and the other Spumoni Gardens thread contributors.

Regards,

Ron