Author Topic: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie  (Read 26979 times)

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Offline Saiwu

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2012, 06:41:18 PM »
Guys, please forgive my total noob intrusion ( I still need to painstakingly consult the glossary to even understand the ingredients), but I too, am obsessed with L&B pizza (well, all great pizza). For those near NJ, there is a place called Bruno's in Clifton which is clearly a clone of L&B. I'm guessing that the owner there may be far less guarded about providing info. John, I see you are in Mass. I am in CT. I have a pretty well equipped kitchen--commercial type kitchen-aid mixer and a Bakers Pride dual deck pizza oven (electric but cooks the same or better than gas). If you want a place to experiment I'd welcome the tutoring as the learning curve for me will be quite steep.


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2012, 10:05:34 AM »
Guys, please forgive my total noob intrusion ( I still need to painstakingly consult the glossary to even understand the ingredients), but I too, am obsessed with L&B pizza (well, all great pizza). For those near NJ, there is a place called Bruno's in Clifton which is clearly a clone of L&B. I'm guessing that the owner there may be far less guarded about providing info. John, I see you are in Mass. I am in CT. I have a pretty well equipped kitchen--commercial type kitchen-aid mixer and a Bakers Pride dual deck pizza oven (electric but cooks the same or better than gas). If you want a place to experiment I'd welcome the tutoring as the learning curve for me will be quite steep.

Saiwu - Thanks for the offer! But this pizza is actually very easy to make. Just get a blue steel pan from Amazon. Here is a recipe that is adapted for extra flavor and a home oven - use the site dough calculator:

100% Flour (King Arthur Bread Flour)
62% Water (room temp)
.4% IDY
2.5% salt
3% oil
1% sugar

TF: 0.18

Mix to combine in your mixer, then rest 20 minutes. Mix on medium-low for 4-6 minutes until the dough starts to stretch without breaking easily. Rest 1 hour covered. Ball and then put in the fridge for at least one day - up to 2 days. Oil the pan, then take cold dough out and press into pan as far to the edges as you can, pressing out air. Let sit for 1/2 hour, then press to edges keeping the dough even throughout. Top with slices of deli mozz, not too thick, and with spaces between slices. Top HEAVILY with San Marzanos that have been crushed finely with salt, sugar, black pepper and oregano added. Leave an inch border of exposed dough. For a 15.765x11.825 pan I use a full 28oz can. Top that pie with a generous dose of grated percorino cheese, and then generous swirls of olive oil. Bake at 480 for 15 minutes. The edges should get dark, crispy and slightly burnt.

John

Offline Saiwu

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2012, 11:09:42 AM »
John, what size blue steel pan?

Offline Saiwu

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2012, 11:11:49 AM »
Ok, got it. Thx.

Offline Saiwu

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #84 on: February 18, 2012, 09:31:16 PM »
John, when you say "oil," is that extra virgin olive oil or something else? Sorry for the dumb question...

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #85 on: February 19, 2012, 09:53:31 AM »
John, when you say "oil," is that extra virgin olive oil or something else? Sorry for the dumb question...

I use olive oil - but any oil will do.

John

Offline sum1else

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #86 on: February 20, 2012, 06:20:43 PM »
I had a quick stop at L&B today. It's so good. Anyway, I measured the half sheet I took home at 17.5 x 12, and the outer crust is 1" thick. I couldn't see any supplies at all. I went around back and even looked near the dumpster.

I noticed that on the uncooked pies the romano cheese is very coarsely grated. It may even be food processed and not grated. I also was able to see that one oven was set to 500F.

Offline johnnydoubleu

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2012, 11:17:16 PM »
Finally got around to making an "L&B-influenced" pie using only my home-cultured (2 year old) sourdough as a leaven. Wasn't half-bad. 2 more tries and I think it will be about where I want it.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 11:48:03 PM by johnnydoubleu »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2012, 09:22:14 AM »
Finally got around to making an "L&B-influenced" pie using only my home-cultured (2 year old) sourdough as a leaven. Wasn't half-bad. 2 more tries and I think it will be about where I want it.

Awesome. I did an all starter last week and the flavor was amazing. I think there is a lot of headroom in the choice of yeast selection with this pie, because the dough is heavily mixed for a tight crumb. The delicacy of starters and an open crumb is not a concern.

I have been playing with .17-.19 to get that extreme height. Tyler confirmed that the height is pretty high. I made one last night using IDY. This one was cooked at 500 for 12 minutes.

John

parallei

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #89 on: March 11, 2012, 09:28:51 PM »
In the Style of L&B.......



Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #90 on: March 11, 2012, 10:52:34 PM »
Nice work guys.  I'll admit I haven't given this thread much thought until I had a square from L&B over the weekend.  It's a great pie and one I want to start working on soon.   John, you are right about the intensive mix, tight crumb, and height.   Despite the thickness and apparent use of oil or shortening in the dough, the crust was light and not heavy in mouth feel or on the stomach.  

Kelly and others pointed out to me that their pies are baked twice.  I was told that during rush hour, pies are par baked at low temps in "holding ovens" until they are ordered, then they are transferred to the ovens where they are baked.  Their ovens also have a divider in which the pan is rotated from the bottom to the upper level I believe.  Probably to bake the bottom until proper browness, and then moved up top to finish off the pies.  Several times, I saw guys pulling the pies out of the oven and checking the bottoms for doneness and then putting them back into the ovens.

They also had pies topped and sitting on racks next to the ovens.  I wasn't sure if these pies were not baked yet or par baked.  Likely unbaked and waiting to be parbaked as the oven space is free.  If this is so, then the pies sort of move along an assembly line sort of speak.  

Some photos from L&B.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 11:01:29 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #91 on: March 12, 2012, 07:36:55 AM »
In the Style of L&B.......



Paul - Outstanding! I love the crumb and you got really good coloration and height. What flour did you use?

John

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #92 on: March 12, 2012, 07:40:32 AM »
I'll admit I haven't given this thread much thought until I had a square from L&B over the weekend.

Chau - Thanks very much for the pics and insight. I have to admit that I make this pie at least once a week now. I am addicted. It is very easy to duplicate. I am starting to experiment with higher hydrations and an open crumb, where you still get the lightness and slightly underdone dough at the top near the cheese. Have fun and post your results.

John
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 07:44:00 AM by dellavecchia »

parallei

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #93 on: March 12, 2012, 09:59:42 AM »
Thanks John.

Quote
What flour did you use?

KABF.  Is there another flour? ;D

72% = HR, IDY = .5%, Salt = 2.25%, Oil = 3%, Sugar = 1%, TF = 0.16
Hand mix, turns and folds every 20 min for 2 hours.  Into the fridge for about 18 hours.  To room temp for 1 hour. Gently fold, cover and rest 1 hour.  Into pans, cover and rest 1 hour.  Top and bake @ 475 about 18 min.

Like I said, "In the Style of". Not he tighter crumb you guys are shooting for.  Tasty though...
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 10:04:44 AM by parallei »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #94 on: March 12, 2012, 10:13:14 AM »
Paul, I'd eat a few of those squares any day.  Looks great.

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #95 on: April 09, 2012, 03:30:28 PM »
What's been the best method/recipe of getting a L&B style pie so far? Looking to take a crack at this soon.

parallei

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #96 on: April 09, 2012, 10:31:32 PM »
Quote
Insert Quote
What's been the best method/recipe of getting a L&B style pie so far?


The only one that didn't appeal to me is the one that Scott123 posted here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17168.msg167907.html#msg167907

and that is from the L&B themselves!  It looks like a custard....


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #97 on: April 09, 2012, 10:46:12 PM »
I agree Paul, that one looks like cr@p!   The crumb shot I posted up above looks much more appetizing and I can tell you that square I ate was dang good.  I'm mixing up my first L&B clone dough tonight!  I hope it turns out okay.  Will bake it up tomorrow.  Are most of you guys cold fermenting overnight in the pan itself? 

Chau

Offline johnnydoubleu

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #98 on: April 09, 2012, 11:14:21 PM »
I agree Paul, that one looks like cr@p!   The crumb shot I posted up above looks much more appetizing and I can tell you that square I ate was dang good.  I'm mixing up my first L&B clone dough tonight!  I hope it turns out okay.  Will bake it up tomorrow.  Are most of you guys cold fermenting overnight in the pan itself? 

Chau
First, yeah totally that pic that Scott posted is distorted in such a way that in looks unlike the real thing. I've eaten L&B quite a few times and it never looks like custard. It's a good Sicilian pizza with a great sauce on top of the (little) cheese. Anyone I know who has had it that has any worthwhile opinion has enjoyed it.

--

Chau, retarding or not won't make much of a difference if it is only for a night. Do if it helps your schedule or just go straight to the bake once it is adequately spread and proofed in the pan. This is a forgiving style. The intensive mix I find to be unnecessary. The crumb of the real thing is pretty tender and I find I can get a medium-dense crumb with very gentle hand-mixing (and manipulating other factors) no problem. There are a few ways to arrive at the same end crumb characteristics.

parallei

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #99 on: April 09, 2012, 11:27:00 PM »
Quote
Into the fridge for about 18 hours.  To room temp for 1 hour. Gently fold, cover and rest 1 hour.  Into pans, cover and rest 1 hour.  Top and bake @ 475 about 18 min.

That is how I've done it last few times (sort of like I do everything these days).  It might give you a more open crumb than you might want.....it probably doesn't need the middle fold and hour rest.


 

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