Author Topic: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie  (Read 31927 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline johnnydoubleu

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 222
  • Location: Flatbush
  • Thrill junkie. Baker. Cook. Coder. Aesthete.
    • johnwozniak.com
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #120 on: April 11, 2012, 02:07:47 PM »
Chau, as far as TF, it is important to remember that L&B is subject to a lot of the same factors/variability we are. Their pizza is not identical throughout the day -- taller and shorter depending. It is a good reminder that all these pizzas are not static things even though when evaluating them it sort of seems as though they are (I am more reminding myself of this -- it is a good reminder). People get the idea that they go once to L&B and then everyone else that comes gets a pie of the same height. Close, but there is still some variability. So....I think you are close enough to the "right height", but dialing it down ever so slightly might better represent a typical L&B pie. The amount of rise and spring are clearly factors as well. Next time I go, I'll measure it and share that here.

I attribute the general lack of chewiness to the oil in the dough. As we know HG or almost HG flours tend to tighten up a bit as they sit, so I imagine when L&B is rocking it isn't chewy (really not at all) but at slower times it might be a little. But on the whole, I definately don't consider it chewy. A pie with a lot of durum flour in it -- now that is legitimately chewy.

This is the 1/4 sheet pan I some times use for small pies -- it is sold all over:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=quarter+sheet+aluminum+pan&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1138&bih=710&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=3760865065157620209&sa=X&ei=-MWFT5e0DoLn0QGX6PDbBw&ved=0CJ0BEPICMAU


Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6978
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #121 on: April 11, 2012, 06:36:20 PM »
Thanks for the links Norma.  If I can't find something suitable locally, I'll order from one of those links.

Johnny, thanks for the notes on TF.  TBH, I'm not really obsessed with getting the TF just right.  Ball park is good enough for me.   From the looks of it, the squares in the pic Scott posted look at least 10% thicker than what I posted.  And what I posted is on par with the thickness of the squares we had on the tour.  But I will say that after giving it more thought I will happily agree with Scott on the TF.  I do personally feel that the pie is unbalanced.   That is too much crust for the sauce and cheese, especially the cheese.  

I think for future tries, I will take Scotty's advice and drop the TF down by 25% or so and maybe add a bit more cheese to bring more balance to the pie.  

Good to know that their pizza isn't relatively chewy on a normal basis.  The square I had was very light, tender, and soft from what I remember. Thanks for the link as well.  

Wanted to say thanks to Tyler for starting this thread and to those who have contributed.  It's nice to be able to make somethng similar in the home setting since I live so far away.

Chau
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 08:15:05 PM by Jackie Tran »

parallei

  • Guest
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #122 on: April 15, 2012, 11:40:06 PM »
Starting to be the go to simple pie around here.  Cheapo teflon pans seem to work o.k. also.


Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6978
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #123 on: April 16, 2012, 12:01:19 AM »
Nice job Paul, what TF are you using there?  

Had a few squares retoasted a few days ago and they are still quite good for a reheat.  
I just picked up this small 9x12" serving tray.  It feels heavy gauge, but I'm not quite sure if it's aluminum or steel.  I think it is aluminum.  Anyways it is only 1" deep so it will force me to make slightly thinner sicillian pies.   ;)

I also saw the deeper 2.5" steel serving trays at my local Shamrock food distributor store but didn't go for that b/c I thought it might make it abit harder to get the pie out of the tray.  

parallei

  • Guest
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #124 on: April 16, 2012, 12:25:21 AM »
Quote
what TF are you using there?

I've settled in at 0.16

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21631
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #125 on: April 16, 2012, 09:00:55 AM »
Paul,

Nice job!  :)

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline sum1else

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 91
  • Location: NYC
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #126 on: May 11, 2012, 09:39:47 AM »
Everyone's pies are looking really good! I've been swamped, but I'll have some time to keep playing with this recipe soon.

If anyone is in NYC, you should check out Madison Square Eats before June 1. There is a vendor (from Palermo!) selling authentic Sfincione.. The crust/crumb looks spot on identical to L&B, but I haven't tried it yet. http://midtownlunch.com/2012/05/11/heres-what-a-week-of-gorging-at-mad-sq-eats-looks-like/antica-sfincione/
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 09:44:33 AM by sum1else »

Offline rohfan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
Maybe some helpful info for reverse enginnering L&B
« Reply #127 on: June 09, 2012, 05:50:12 PM »
FWIW, I had the pleasure of eating at L&B twice over the past two weeks because I was in the neighborhood for work. On one of those visits there was a Cremosa delivery truck parked outside the restaurant and it looked like they were making a delivery. They supply pizza sauce and cheese, apparently, as was noted on the side of the truck.

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21904
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #128 on: June 15, 2012, 01:38:32 PM »
It looks like L&B has been in the news lately: http://screen.yahoo.com/pizza-almost-starts-mafia-war-29666779.html?pb_list=23dce613-c500-43f0-9134-70e58b73187a. For more details, see http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2012/06/mobsters-square-off-in-pizza-sauce-dispute.html. As far as I know, no bodies have been found in the Hudson River.

Peter

parallei

  • Guest
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #129 on: June 15, 2012, 04:33:27 PM »
Quote
It looks like L&B has been in the news lately:

Well, that explains the tomato sauce hand print on our front door the other day :o


Offline sum1else

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 91
  • Location: NYC

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6935
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #131 on: July 15, 2012, 02:53:04 PM »
I applaud their passion, and the backstory had some interesting elements, but that recipe has fail written all over it.

I think the biggest error is that they reference 'low moisture' cheese in the article, but use fresh in the recipe. And then, of course, you've got the volumetric measurements and the KABF.

'The Square's' slice was recently reviewed side by side by Adam Kuban on Slice. It's strange, he had posted a shot of a 'Square' slice in a previous week in review, and that looked nothing like L&Bs, but in the review, they looked extremely close.

Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #132 on: July 16, 2012, 01:51:24 PM »
Starting to be the go to simple pie around here.  Cheapo teflon pans seem to work o.k. also.



That side/crumb shot looks delicious. The amount of sauce used is what I personally prefer as well.

Outstanding looking pie! --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

parallei

  • Guest
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #133 on: September 08, 2012, 12:22:03 AM »
About 11 a.m., I realized it would stay cool enough to actually use my kitchen oven for the first time in eight or nine weeks.  So I made two emergency L&B like pies.  Not bad for a six hour dough, but in all honesty, the sauce with a heavy hit of white pepper saved the day......


Offline TheBoomer

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #134 on: November 07, 2012, 03:43:44 PM »
Thanks for the tips everyone.

I've been making L&B style pizza, based on what I;ve learned here for the past 3 months or so and I think I have as close as I'm going to get.

I'm using the recipe in the first post with KA Bread Flour.  For sauce I'm starting Nina San Marzano and then season to taste, going especially heavy on the oregano but light on the sugar.  My sugar doesn't like her sauce too sweet and I know where my bread is buttered ;). Can of Niina are $3.79 for 106oz can at Costco.  I also use a part-skim low moisture Mozzarella.

After mixing the dough, It goes in the fridge for approx 18-20 hours.  Then I let it sit for about an hour, then press it into the tray, top with cheese and let that sit for another hour.  Top with sauce and pecorino and bake to 18 minutes at 490.

One time I made a big mistake and forget the pecorino romano.  I won't make that mistake again :)

The local's( family and friends) think it's the best pizza they've ever had (of course they haven't been to L&B).  On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being a piping hot tray from L&B right out of the oven, I'd give it an 8.8.

! do have 2 questions.  The first is I saw post about L&B where someone mentioned adding sugar to the dough.  Why and how much would you recommend.

The second question is what's the best pan to use.  I didn't want to invest in pans until I knew that I could get a great pie.  Now I'm looking for pans.

I've seen a few threads about pans and it seems that blue steel is the way to go.  I was wondering what people thought about these 2:

http://www.bucket-outlet.com/upan.htm
http://www.paprod.com/pans.html

Boomer

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12513
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #135 on: November 07, 2012, 04:03:52 PM »
I thought L&B used black standard half sheet pans?

You can get the same 10x14 pans as at Bucket Outlet pre-seasoned here for about the same price: http://detroitstylepizza.co/?s=pans&searchsubmit=Search
Pizza is not bread.

Offline TheBoomer

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #136 on: November 07, 2012, 04:32:26 PM »
I thought L&B used black standard half sheet pans?

You can get the same 10x14 pans as at Bucket Outlet pre-seasoned here for about the same price: http://detroitstylepizza.co/?s=pans&searchsubmit=Search


Craig:

Thanks for the link.  I did come across that website earlier.  The only go up to 10x14 size and I'm looking for larger.  Larger pan, more pizza :)

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3061
  • Age: 43
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #137 on: November 07, 2012, 04:41:37 PM »
cool source craig, I didn't know about this place.        

In my neck of the woods its all about a pizza style that is also pan cooked, and has that awesome charred cheese on the edge like a detroit style pizza.   Most of the pre seasoned pans sold around here have a coating sprayed on them by the manufacturer.  Its not like most teflon non stick coatings, and they call it "pre seasoned" not "non stick" which they also sell.     Its a semi permanent coating that sort of freaks me out.   Im not sure what it is, but its almost seems like a harder than typical neoprene coating.  Its not ceramic.   Whatever it is, I would obviously prefer a baked on coating of oil or shortening.  

Do you know how these pans are pre seasoned?  

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12513
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #138 on: November 07, 2012, 04:46:53 PM »
cool source craig, I didn't know about this place.        

In my neck of the woods its all about a pizza style that is also pan cooked, and has that awesome charred cheese on the edge like a detroit style pizza.   Most of the pre seasoned pans sold around here have a coating sprayed on them by the manufacturer.  Its not like most teflon non stick coatings, and they call it "pre seasoned" not "non stick" which they also sell.     Its a semi permanent coating that sort of freaks me out.   Im not sure what it is, but its almost seems like a harder than typical neoprene coating.  Its not ceramic.   Whatever it is, I would obviously prefer a baked on coating of oil or shortening.  

Do you know how these pans are pre seasoned?  

I think it's baked on oil, but I don't know for sure. I have some inbound. I'll post after I hold them in my hands.

CL
Pizza is not bread.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21631
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #139 on: November 07, 2012, 04:54:14 PM »
Boomer,

I did post pictures of L&B Spumoni Gardens steel pans at 2nd picture down in Reply 246 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17885.msg175826.html#msg175826 and at Reply 248 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17885.msg175827.html#msg175827  I am not sure, but they look like thicker steel pans to me.  I have one of those thicker steel pans.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!