Author Topic: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!  (Read 693 times)

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Offline bondoman

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Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« on: January 13, 2012, 09:37:58 PM »
Hello fellow pizzanuts! My name is Mike or also called bondoman and I love pizza! I am in the quest for a perfect dough.  I actually like the dough I get at Gordon's Foods here in Michigan, but I want to make it on my own.  Their dough is so full of bubbles, I don't know how they do it. When it's only half thawed it's trying to double in size. When baked it goes from a 1/4 inch (undocked)  to 2 inches around the crust....How do they do that???? I am experimenting with Lehmann's dough converter, good yes.. but not perfect..any tips welcome. What am I doing wrong....I do realize this is something I am doing. I am using bread flour and IDY, bottled water and table salt, dough is 81ish degrees after mixing. 2 Hours rest and in the fridge overnight to proof
Thank you and Nice to be here :chef:
Bondoman
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 10:03:16 PM by bondoman »


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 10:17:13 AM »
Mike - It sounds like the dough you are getting has a substantial amount of yeast in it. The presence of lots of bubbles in the dough indicates a moderate, but not excessive, amount of mixing. A balance of the right amount of yeast, the right hydration, the right amount of mixing, and how you ferment the dough will give you the results you want. Post your entire recipe and workflow and we can help you get where you want to be.

John

Offline bondoman

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 11:44:02 AM »
Hello John and thank you for the reply.
The recipe I have been recently using follows below.  I am using a KA mixer, and I have been mixing for 15 to 20 minutes. I am trying to get the finished dough to a temp of 80F.  I read that was important.
I am using bread flour (enriched and unbleached) White Lily brand, IDY, bottled water, table salt, and olive oil.
    After the initial mix I let it rest 1 to 2 hours or about doubled in size.  I then punch it down and put it in the fridge overnight. I typically make the dough in the evening, the day prior to using it around 6 or 7 PM.
  The next day I take it out of the fridge 2-3 hours before I need to use it.  About 3 PM.   I do a combination of stretching and tossing to spread it out.  I have noticed the dough still seems cold at this point.  Our house is around 70-72 degree's.
I don't let it rest after tossing it, typically I just top it and into a 500 degree oven (preheat for about 1/2 an hour) on a screen first, then I pull the screen and finish on the stone.  The pizza's always look good but the crust just does not have that big spring!  When I use Gordon's Foods frozen dough the pizza is amazing!  I hope this is descriptive enough.


flour  274 g
water 170g
IDY    1.4g
salt    4.8g
oil      2.8g
This is for one 16 ounce ball
I have a new dough in the fridge right now substituting 1/4 of the flour with cake flour, not sure how it will turn out...
Thanks
Mike
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 11:55:48 AM by bondoman »

buceriasdon

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 12:28:33 PM »
15 to 20 minutes mixing to me is excessive, I go maybe 4 to 5 minutes using AP flour. For a 24 hour ferment in the fridge, I immediately ball and place in a lightly oiled container and into the fridge. I see very little activity until I take it out and let the ball set for a couple of hours, it doubles then. I am very gentle with my handling of the rim when opening and stretching.
Don

Offline bondoman

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2012, 12:38:07 PM »
Hi Don,
The reason I mix that long is to get the dough nice and smooth and up to the 80 degree temp.  Maybe today I will try a 5 minute mix... As i said I am not sure what I am doing wrong. The dough from Gordon's Food's (GF) I can roll perfectly flat with a rolling pin and still get a 2 inch crust.  I have a feeling it may be some sort of dough enhancers.  I have asked many of the local pizza shops for pointers, but I have found almost all of them use frozen dough.
Mike

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2012, 01:02:59 PM »
Mike - Don's advice is spot on. I think you are letting the dough exhaust itself during your doubling on the counter. Also, you are developing the dough into gluten soup by mixing for 15 minutes. If you are working it until super smooth, use it the same day at room temp - otherwise let the cold fermentation do it's job. You might want to see what two days in the fridge gets you in terms of volume in the oven.

If you want a dough temperature at a certain point, add water that is a bit over the desired temperature. Using dough friction to get it up to temp is a bit excessive for what you are trying to accomplish.

Also, you will get better results if you ditch the screen.

John

Offline bondoman

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 01:13:15 PM »
O.K. I will try a new batch today and let you know how it worked out tomarrow after baking.
Thanks guys!
Mike

buceriasdon

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 01:22:47 PM »
John, Thanks for pointing out the use of warmer water to hit a temperature target as I don't pay much attention to it. I might if I can ever get a sourdough starter to live.
Don

Offline bondoman

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 01:30:17 PM »
Don I have a true San Fran sourdough in the fridge. maybe I could send you a starter...

Do any of you guys recomend or use any dough enhancers like vital gluten or powdered milk for a N.Y. style crust?
Mike

buceriasdon

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2012, 01:55:48 PM »
Mike, For the first few years here in Mexico I used gluten as I was under the impression it was required to get good oven spring using low protein flours and to add strength for opening and stretching. It's not the answer as my experiments without VWG proved to me. It was through proper hydration, kneading and fermentation(dough management) I was able to obtain light airy crusts others achieved here and stretched well. I'm not saying don't experiment with VWG but a decent protein content flour which you have access to would be a better choice. I do use milk in some of my doughs but as I don't make NY style pizza I can't comment on it's use.
Don


Offline bondoman

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2012, 02:43:33 PM »
Thanks Don.
 I have been reading that alot of experienced bakers don't really use it too much and like you prefer a good bread flour instead.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2012, 03:31:57 PM »
Bondoman,

dellaveechia is absolutely right about Don...that man knows what he is doing and I have seen some beautiful work turned out by him all while being limited in resources down Mexico way!

I make my living working in the automobile restoration business....does your name perhaps indicate that you are also involved in the trade ?  :-D


Welcome to the forum! I think you'll be amazed at the information and help you will receive here.

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline bondoman

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2012, 04:31:30 PM »
Hello Bob, nice to make you're acquaintance.
Yes I used to be...none of the shops around here are making any money. :(  A good friend owns a shop locally and said he has not seen a paycheck for himself in 3 years....But that's another story..

I really hope I can figure this dough out ::)

Offline bondoman

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2012, 12:02:00 PM »
O.K. I will try a new batch today and let you know how it worked out tomarrow after baking.
Thanks guys!
Mike
I did make a new batch last weekend according to Tom's New York style dough.  But I substituted 20% cake flour in the dough. (it was suggested by another site). The dough was incredibly soft and I could stretch it by just holding it up in the air.  It had a nice rise (not great), the flavor was very nice.  But not the light crisp and chewy texture I am looking for. I will try to experiment using only bread flour and different knead times.  Any suggestions from the pro's would be appreciated!
Thanks guys!
Mike

scott123

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Re: Hello to all and how bout some dough tips!!
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2012, 12:04:36 PM »
Any suggestions from the pro's would be appreciated!

Sure. Don't follow suggestions from other web sites :)


 

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