What have I got?

[db]

I'd like to try my first Neapolitan style this weekend. I've got a brown bag of flour with a label that says:
King Midas Special HA041911, ConAgra Special Premium Baker's Flour.
I've noticed that you all use flour that's 00. Will the flour I have be OK?
Next question - I usually put some warm water in a bowl, toss in some dry yeast, add flour, salt and a cup of sourdough starter that I've had for ten years, then mix it in a Kitchen aid with the paddle until the dough is stuck to the paddle. Then switch to a dough hook and add flour until the dough rolls around the hook in a ball and cleans the side of the mixer bowl, then set the timer for 8 minutes of kneading.
I don't have a scale yet. I'll go buy one today. If I add flour while mixing until the dough stops sliding down the hook and starts "balling up", does that mean the hydration level is right?

[buceriasdon]

Without the proper high heat oven, Neapolitan pizza cannot be replicated in the run of the mill home 500 degree oven. Under two minutes bake time is the norm for Neapolitan. Sounds like you have a good flour for an Artisan or American style pizza. I don't use the paddle anymore in my KA, just the hook but if it works for you, go for it.
Don

[db]

Don,
Thanks for the reply. You nailed it...3 minutes and I had a burnt bottom. Looks like I'll go for two minutes next time.

[buceriasdon]

db, Question: What was the top color like? The real trick to a well baked pizza is equal coloring and baking for the top and bottom, that's the challenge.
Don

[Martino1]

May I ask, how often you get the sourdough starter fully active usually ?
A cup of fully active starter seems a lot. Depending on the amout of flour it could use up.

I suggest after it was kneaded in the machine, take it out and finish it manually, i.e. see if it is smooth, a bit sticky but not overly. Work it a little bit more and let it rest for 15 minutes. If it is smooth after resting period, it should be fine.

[db]

The crust on the top was well formed but still white. The cheese was white also. No browning.
The stone was 725 degrees f.
The starter - I keep a full mason jar in the fridge. When I bake bread or pizza, I pour out a cup of it into the flour while mixing. Then I put some new flour and water back into the jar, mix it up and put it back in the fridge until the next weekend. I use about 6 or 7 cups of flour for the weekend's bread or pizza. I use the starter mostly for flavor. I still toss in a tablespoon of yeast in the dough.

[Martino1]

Maybe try with less yeast (for room temp fermentation), since the yeast eats up the sugar which helps browning.

[db]

I will try that Martino. I did not know that yeast will devour the sugar.
Thanks.

[jeffereynelson]

Hey so I haven't posted on here in a while but I just wanted to reinforce that you get the scale. While I do sometimes just add my flour till it balls for making simple breads, that doesn't work well for me when experimenting with neapolitan pizza. I will make lots of different batches slightly adjusting the hydration, the bulk ferments, the rising time etc. Using specific baking % will let you do lots of little tweaks.

[db]

Might have to wait til next weekend to get the scale. Thanks for the advice.

[Martino1]

Can you post the recipe ? From the look i would say it is overfermented, maybe due to relative high yeast compared to the fermentation time and temperature, but thats just a guess.
I also recommend to get a digital scale, try lower yeast content and check the hydration level. Also look into how you bulk ferment and ball as well as how much flour to use during forming the skin.

All the info is out there, maybe pick one recipe and move from there.

Enjoy the process of learning and welcome to the forum

[db]

Thanks buddy. I don't use a recipie but I will try one after I pick up a scale. This one here was an attempt to get the top more done. 850 degrees for two minutes. The dough was only six hours old. It was very difficult to stretch.

[Martino1]

OK, temperature doesn't seem to be a problem 
For me a recipe is not really something to be chained to, but a systematic approach to document what one is changing and through this achieve consistency. In my early days i tried to change many variable at one go and actually through this made it inconsistent. Especially the hydration in your personal environment has a big impact. A little bit of flour (small hand) will change the feel of the dough significantly. so i tend to hold back 2% hydration as flour and knead it in unti the dough feels right. In the beginning i also took way to much yeast. In the meantime for me 0.08% of the flour (if i dont take a natural starter, but only IDY) is already a lot. I use a microscale to ge the amount right. By fermentation time and temp i can achieve a nicely but not overfermented dough. If i overferment the finish products crumb will be a bit pale and chewy.

6 hours however do not seem to be too long. Did you ball the dough in individual balls before the last proofing ?

[db]

I did ball the dough into four balls and cut the yeast down to one tsp instead of 1 tablespoon.

[db]

I finally picked up a scale. I am starting with this:
510 flour
330 water
18 salt
45 wet starter
1.5 IDY

[db]

Now I know what you mean by easy on the stomach. The crust was very soft, almost like pastry. It was outstanding. This was a two minute pie. The center was kinda disgusting though. I didn't use red sauce. I drizzled with olive oil and put on provalone and pepperoni. The center was dripping with oil/grease. Yuk.
I used all purpose flour from Sam's club. It's got a lot of little lumps in it. I've never seen that before.
Thanks a lot for all your help everyone.

[db]

Last night's pie. Same recipe, no yeast. Wanted to see what difference ther would be.
The crust was tougher, harder to stretch, and there was less volume. The pie had sour cream, mozz, and raw slivers of ribeye. It was way too wet in the center again. Kinda nasty.

[db]

Now this is just getting depressing. Tonights pie ended up in the trash. Pretty much the same story. Pretty good crust. A swampland in the middle. Red sauce, olives, mushrooms, sausage. The mozz dissolved into a pool of water. I'm thinking, maybe switch over to the Sicilian forum.

[salvatoregianpaolo]

Just a thought... you might want to reconsider your words.  Some might take offense. 

Ciao,
Salvatore