Author Topic: Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas  (Read 1057 times)

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Offline JD

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #80 on: July 16, 2014, 10:17:15 AM »
>> Another lesson learned. When I put the pie in I set for 5 min. after 1 min I was turning on the broiler and then back to bake after 1min on #1 and 30sec on #2. I then took visual cues to remove and neglected to look at the time! Will start logging my times also!

Understood. The reason I ask is with 1/4" steel, your total bake time will rely completely on the amount of time it takes for your undercrust to be done. At 600* you may be able to squeeze out a 5-6min pie, but I'd be surprised. Once you figure out how long it takes for the undercrust to cook, you then adjust your broiler time accordingly so the top and bottom finish at the same time.  In the end you may not want to lower your oven temp at all, and you may not even need broiler time, it is all dependent on how long it takes for the bottom to finish.


Josh


Offline lanceberry

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2014, 07:48:50 PM »
 :)
Back in the kitchen tonight, will try this again, only this time leave it in the fridge for 48 hrs and pull 3 hrs before making.

100%  KABF
62%    Filtered water from my fridge warmed up to around 85F in microwave
0.5%   ADY  (I have Red Star ADY in a jar that specifies good for bread machines??)
2%      Fine Sea Salt
2%      Oil (Soybean Vegetable)
1%      Sugar

When I scale I will weigh and take notes this time!


Thanks!

Offline pythonic

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #82 on: July 20, 2014, 11:05:34 PM »
Lance,

Have you tried a full broiler attempt yet?  It may get you closer to what you are looking for.  This is a sub 3 minute bake using high gluten flour at about 66% hydration.

Nate
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 11:13:01 PM by pythonic »
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Offline lanceberry

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #83 on: July 21, 2014, 06:33:47 PM »
Lance,

Have you tried a full broiler attempt yet?  It may get you closer to what you are looking for.  This is a sub 3 minute bake using high gluten flour at about 66% hydration.

Nate

Hello Nate, I have not tried the full broiler on, If I did that I would need to lower the rack. I say this as with 1min it starting to really burn the top when placed two racks down from the top (about 5-6").

Offline lanceberry

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #84 on: July 22, 2014, 11:12:02 PM »
 :) :) Getting Better!

These were done with above recipe, I took them out of the fridge a little too soon. By the time they hit the oven it was 4 hours for the first and 4 1/2 for the third. More lessons learned on how to time everything. Seems prep and oven heating takes longer then  I planned. But hey it keeps getting better!!

Thanks

Offline jsaras

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2014, 12:32:41 AM »
Looks pretty darn good. You've come a long way in a very short period of time.
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Offline scott123

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2014, 01:00:44 AM »
Lance, those are coming along very very nicely.

We need to have the sauce and cheese talk :)

First, is your sauce cooked? Pizza sauce, at least, for the style you're making, is never cooked. This particular style of sauce also contains no oil.  It should incorporate a good brand of crushed tomatoes (not San Marzano's), hand blended briefly to get some of the chunks out. Beyond that, I highly recommend adding some sugar (depending on the sweetness of the tomato), some salt (depending on the amount of salt added to the tomatoes), and tiny amounts of dried oregano and finely chopped fresh basil.  It should almost always incorporate some water, although water depends on the consistency of the crushed tomatoes.

Beyond adjusting your sauce formula, I would suggest increasing your overall sauce quantity, as it's looking kind of dry.  Sufficient sauce is important for the tomatoey flavor, but it's also critical for keeping the cheese from browning too quickly, as you're seeing here.

Fresh mozzerella (aka Fior di latte), the kind of motz that's stored in water, or wet cryovaced in balls- fresh motz is favored by quick bake times.  With your bake time, you'd be much better off with the richer taste and better melting qualities of a good aged mozzarella.  Just like distributor flour is better than supermarket flour, distributor cheese is better than supermarket cheese.  I think you're about ready to graduate to distributor flour.  When you make that move, I suggest picking up some commercial cheese, such as saputo.  Until then, though, I would work with a brick of something like Galbani (Sorrento) from the supermarket, making sure to grate it yourself.

One other tip.

Commercial operators with loads of stretching experience can coat the dough in dusting flour once and make it through the whole stretching process just on that one coat.  Less experienced stretchers, because they're not as fast, have to re-apply the flour a few times mid-stretch.  The most important period for re-applying flour is during the edge stretch.  As you move around the edge, the dough will absorb the flour, and, eventually, if you don't reapply frequently, you'll hit a part that catches on the bench.  Once the dough catches, goodbye perfect circle, hello corner(s). Scoop the dough off the bench and rest it on your forearm while you toss flour with the other hand.  Tossing flour takes some time to master.  The goal is to create a puff of floury air that settles on the bench in a very thin even layer with the widest possible coverage. It's all in the wrist.  It's a little like tossing dice.

Anyway, during the edge stretch, if you're a bit slow, you might end up having to scoop up the dough and re-dust the bench 2 or even three times.  If in doubt, dust the bench- you can't do it too frequently.  You can do it too infrequently, though.

Up through the edge stretch, flour is your friend. To a point, you can pretty much use as much as you want.  The second the dough leaves the bench and goes into the knuckle stretch, flour becomes your arch enemy (other than the flour on the peel).  Right before knuckle stretching, you want to clean the bench thoroughly, so if the dough touches the bench, it doesn't pick up any more flour.  It's during the knuckle stretch where (hopefully) all of the excess flour gets shaken off the dough. Passing the skin from palm to palm a couple times right before knuckle stretching doesn't hurt.

Offline lanceberry

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2014, 08:22:44 AM »
Looks pretty darn good. You've come a long way in a very short period of time.

Thanks and appreciate all the help and feedback

Offline lanceberry

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2014, 08:46:35 AM »
Lance, those are coming along very very nicely.

We need to have the sauce and cheese talk :)

First, is your sauce cooked? Pizza sauce, at least, for the style you're making, is never cooked. This particular style of sauce also contains no oil.  It should incorporate a good brand of crushed tomatoes (not San Marzano's), hand blended briefly to get some of the chunks out. Beyond that, I highly recommend adding some sugar (depending on the sweetness of the tomato), some salt (depending on the amount of salt added to the tomatoes), and tiny amounts of dried oregano and finely chopped fresh basil.  It should almost always incorporate some water, although water depends on the consistency of the crushed tomatoes.

Beyond adjusting your sauce formula, I would suggest increasing your overall sauce quantity, as it's looking kind of dry.  Sufficient sauce is important for the tomatoey flavor, but it's also critical for keeping the cheese from browning too quickly, as you're seeing here.

Fresh mozzerella (aka Fior di latte), the kind of motz that's stored in water, or wet cryovaced in balls- fresh motz is favored by quick bake times.  With your bake time, you'd be much better off with the richer taste and better melting qualities of a good aged mozzarella.  Just like distributor flour is better than supermarket flour, distributor cheese is better than supermarket cheese.  I think you're about ready to graduate to distributor flour.  When you make that move, I suggest picking up some commercial cheese, such as saputo.  Until then, though, I would work with a brick of something like Galbani (Sorrento) from the supermarket, making sure to grate it yourself.

One other tip.

Commercial operators with loads of stretching experience can coat the dough in dusting flour once and make it through the whole stretching process just on that one coat.  Less experienced stretchers, because they're not as fast, have to re-apply the flour a few times mid-stretch.

Thanks Scott!

- the sauce is store bought, I know,,,,,, but I did not want to get distracted with it also while trying to get the dough right. The glass jar is very bland and thin, the can is thick and bolder , neither perfect in taste. Will buy some stuff for next weeks round and take a swing fresh not cooked sauce as you suggest.
- interesting info on sauce quantity and cheese melt, will add more!
- for commercial flour is there a particular brand name to look for? Should I shift to high protein now? (Trumps or a KA?)
- got it on the cheese also. Been using log type mozzarella from whole foods. I break off in chunks. For the pies last night I used the bag cheese on one, the wrong type of rolled mozzarella on the other (picked up some kind of rolling pin wheel cheese by mistake :-( ), and a combo of each on the third. I did not use the block shown below
- will look for aged commercial type cheese, this sounds better!
- oh ok, thanks for the observation and tips on the working of the dough, yes I'm moving kind of slow and do find that it sticks sometimes, will accelerate my process and use more flour.

Thanks again
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 08:51:53 AM by lanceberry »

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #89 on: July 25, 2014, 12:51:23 PM »
HEB doesn't have a good aged mozzarella.  Either get Oaxaca or go to Wally-world and get their whole milk mozzarella (green label, different place from the regular cheeses for some reason).


Offline jsaras

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #90 on: July 25, 2014, 04:38:38 PM »
This is my flour cheat sheet.  The information was gathered from numerous sources on this forum:
Flour Specs

King Arthur All Purpose - 11.7% protein, 60% water

King Arthur Bread Flour - 12.7% protein, 62% water

King Arthur Sir Lancelot - 14.2% protein

Pendleton Power Flour - 13.5% protein, 64-65% water

Pendleton Mondako - 12% protein, 60-62% water

Gold Medal Better for Bread Flour (Harvest King) - 12% +/- 0.3

Gold Medal Superlative - 12.6% protein

Trader Joes All Purpose Flour - 11.8% protein

Ceresota All Purpose - 12% protein

Con Agra Mello Judith - Protein 11.8%

Con Agra Occident - 12.4%




Scott123's NY flours (13-ish% is ideal)

Progressive Baker Spring King   13.2
ADM Commander   13
Conagra Magnifico Special   13
GM* High Power   13
Progressive Baker Spring Hearth   13
Conagra Producer   13.4
GM* Best Baker's   12.9
GM* Full Strength   12.6
Conagra King Midas Special   12.6
GM* Superlative   12.6
GM* XXXX Patent   12.6
ADM Majestic   12.6
ADM Springup   12.6
Conagra Occident   12.2
Bay State Milling Perfect Diamond   12.5?

*General Mills or Pillsbury or Gold Medal (all the same company)


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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #91 on: July 25, 2014, 05:02:23 PM »
HEB doesn't have a good aged mozzarella.  Either get Oaxaca or go to Wally-world and get their whole milk mozzarella (green label, different place from the regular cheeses for some reason).

What do you mean by "aged mozarella?"

If you just mean dry, the HEB brand whole milk mozz they sell in the deli is very good. Way better than the GV whole milk mozz they sell at Walmart (which isn't bad in a pinch).
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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #92 on: July 25, 2014, 07:48:36 PM »
Actually, you are right about the Deli mozzarella, I forgot about it.  By aged I meant low-moisture, whole milk.

Offline lanceberry

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #93 on: July 26, 2014, 08:52:58 AM »
HEB doesn't have a good aged mozzarella.  Either get Oaxaca or go to Wally-world and get their whole milk mozzarella (green label, different place from the regular cheeses for some reason).

Thanks we will start the hunt!

Offline lanceberry

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #94 on: July 26, 2014, 08:57:03 AM »
This is my flour cheat sheet.  The information was gathered from numerous sources on this forum:
Flour Specs

King Arthur All Purpose - 11.7% protein, 60% water

King Arthur Bread Flour - 12.7% protein, 62% water

King Arthur Sir Lancelot - 14.2% protein

Pendleton Power Flour - 13.5% protein, 64-65% water

Pendleton Mondako - 12% protein, 60-62% water

Gold Medal Better for Bread Flour (Harvest King) - 12% +/- 0.3

Gold Medal Superlative - 12.6% protein

Trader Joes All Purpose Flour - 11.8% protein

Ceresota All Purpose - 12% protein

Con Agra Mello Judith - Protein 11.8%

Con Agra Occident - 12.4%




Scott123's NY flours (13-ish% is ideal)

Progressive Baker Spring King   13.2
ADM Commander   13
Conagra Magnifico Special   13
GM* High Power   13
Progressive Baker Spring Hearth   13
Conagra Producer   13.4
GM* Best Baker's   12.9
GM* Full Strength   12.6
Conagra King Midas Special   12.6
GM* Superlative   12.6
GM* XXXX Patent   12.6
ADM Majestic   12.6
ADM Springup   12.6
Conagra Occident   12.2
Bay State Milling Perfect Diamond   12.5?

*General Mills or Pillsbury or Gold Medal (all the same company)

Great list thanks!

Offline lanceberry

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Re: Assisting Lance Berry from Texas
« Reply #95 on: Today at 07:51:02 AM »
From last night! Using the HEB deli dry whole milk mozzarella , much better all around. My pie I used a combination with some bits of fresh mozzarella on top.

Have not had time to order commercial flour, cheese or the recommended CA tomatoes for the sauce yet.


 

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