Author Topic: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????  (Read 62607 times)

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Offline texmex

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #660 on: September 13, 2013, 03:33:10 PM »
 Thank you for all the great experiments TomN. 

I became obsessed by this thread and had to read all of it this morning.

I have tried many of these beers-but never in pizza dough, and I can appreciate your use of "quality" ingredients for the fun and enjoyment of the process. Very cool.  8)

 Having some ready starter to experiment with, and a few  :-D bud lights :-D there in the fridge, I decided to try a preferment beer dough. 

Here's what I plugged into the preferment pizza dough calculator:

Calculated by dough weight
210 grams per ball
4 dough balls
Overall hydration 66%
Salt Kosher Morton's 2%
Yeast NONE
Preferment expressed as % of total dough weight
preferment amount 40%
preferment's percentage of water 50%
Oil 5%
Sugar 3%
Bowl residue compensation 1%

Total Formula:
Flour (100%):482.05 g  |  17 oz | 1.06 lbs
Water (66%):318.15 g  |  11.22 oz | 0.7 lbs
Salt (2%):9.64 g | 0.34 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.01 tsp | 0.67 tbsp
Oil (5%):24.1 g | 0.85 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.36 tsp | 1.79 tbsp
Sugar (3%):14.46 g | 0.51 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.63 tsp | 1.21 tbsp
Total (176%):848.4 g | 29.93 oz | 1.87 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball: 212.1 g | 7.48 oz | 0.47 lbs (4 balls)

Preferment:
Flour: 127.26 g | 4.49 oz | 0.28 lbs
Water:127.26 g | 4.49 oz | 0.28 lbs
Total:254.52 g | 8.98 oz | 0.56 lbs

Final Dough (note that I used straight beer since my preferment contained about 125 grams of water):
 
Flour (Peter Pan Bread Flour):354.79 g | 12.51 oz | 0.78 lbs
Beer (Bud Light straight from the can):190.89 g | 6.73 oz | 0.42 lbs
Salt (Morton's Kosher) :9.64 g | 0.34 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.01 tsp | 0.67 tbsp
Preferment (50/50 water to flour ratio):254.52 g | 8.98 oz | 0.56 lbs
Oil (EVOO):24.1 g | 0.85 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.36 tsp | 1.79 tbsp
Sugar (basic table sugar):14.46 g | 0.51 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.63 tsp | 1.21 tbsp
Total:848.4 g | 29.93 oz | 1.87 lbs  | TF = N/A

I had the starter at room temp and the beer was almost room temp.  I did not de-gas the beer, just poured it directly from the can.  Since I wanted 4 balls @ 210 grams each  (for my small 12" stone) I opted to mix by hand and incorporated 3 series of stretch and folds (the first after 15 minutes, 2nd 30 minutes later, and 3rd 30 minutes after that. The dough is rather sticky. but I'm used to high hydration dough, and it is acting really nice at this point.  I then split, weighed and balled the dough immediately after the 3rd S&F and placed the balls in fridge for at least a day of cold ferment. 

I intend at least 2 of  these to be baked at 425 for 15 minutes tomorrow evening. And I'll bake the other 2 on Sunday.  I'll let y'all know how it turns out.
Reesa


Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #661 on: September 13, 2013, 04:42:06 PM »
Of all the pizzerias owners I have talked with, that use beer in their dough making, none of them de-gas the beer. The dough ball will have a little air after the cold rise, which can be released with a fork or pressed out as you make the pizza. Most let the dough ball get warmer after taken out of the fridge.  Also, they don't worry about the beer temperature. Most will use the beer on tap rather than the bottle, like I do at home. Besides, you want to get it in the fridge ASAP after making the dough, so cold beer is not a problem.

I just am going to make sure that my dough gets a full 48 hour cold rise from now on. What difference in flavor and texture that it makes.

TomN
PS
Thank you for all the calculations. Also, I just bought a case of Warsteiner Octoberfest from Costco and will be trying that soon.

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #662 on: September 14, 2013, 01:48:14 AM »
texmex,

I know of a Pizzeria in town that uses Bud Light in their pizza dough. I took a co-worker to lunch there one day and he noticed the difference in the taste of the dough. He is not a beer drinker either. Also, they also use a Whole Milk Danish Mozzarella Cheese on the pizza and their pizza is really good too. My point is that even a light beer can add flavor to pizza dough.

TomN
PS
Here is a photo that i posted, when i used to buy this cheese. The Costco Business Center stopped selling this cheese.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19649.msg192373.html#msg192373
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 11:50:54 AM by TomN »

Offline texmex

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #663 on: September 16, 2013, 03:06:51 PM »
I realized my beer dough was not going to be ready soon with a cold ferment and no yeast so I waited until today to bake some of the dough I made on Friday. Some of the rising happened yesterday at room temp as I had 2 dough balls out after 48 hours in the fridge- plans changed and back they went into the fridge.  Today I took the 2 out and let them warm up at least an hour then I opened the first ball while my oven came to temp.

 Since I had such high hydration I cranked my oven to 550 and baked for 7 and a half minutes. The dough smelled great while baking. I ended up with a cracker crust which was tasty -- slightly sour with a hint of beer--although a little tough. 

I did not follow TomN's recipe-this was just an experiment with beer and starter.  Not a bad effort, but not the greatest as far as pizza's I've made in the home oven.  I do enjoy a thin cracker crust though, and I also enjoy working with high hydration dough. I may try this again with no fridge rest and just a tad less hydration.  Anyway-thanks for pointing me towards beer in dough, TOmN :)
Reesa

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #664 on: September 17, 2013, 01:03:01 AM »
Warsteiner Premium Oktoberfest

I purchased a case of this beer at Costco without ever trying it at the recommendation of a customer that was buying it that night. While I like the beer, I must say that it is a very light version of Octoberfest beers. Surprisingly, many friends liked the lighter tasting beer, including me. So, I made dough with this beer tonight. I think that it will make a very fine pizza dough that i am looking forward to baking. I did add a little extra sugar since this beer was a bit dryer in taste.

TomN

The Beer:
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/360/12451

My Dough Recipe:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17415.msg245184.html#msg245184
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 01:23:09 AM by TomN »

Offline texmex

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #665 on: September 18, 2013, 05:27:35 PM »
An update on my beer/starter dough.

Took the 2 remaining balls out to warm up a few hours and baked the first one at 550 for 6 minutes.

The results were much improved with this long ferment--springy, tender, thin crust.  The flavor was not so much beer as sourdough which I really enjoyed. 

I'll have fun experimenting with this dough and will post some pics of the results when I have time.
Reesa

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #666 on: September 19, 2013, 01:01:16 AM »
Sounds great texmex. Hope it all goes well for you.

TomN

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #667 on: September 19, 2013, 01:02:46 AM »
Use two of the dough balls this evening with dough that was made with Warsteiner Premium Oktoberfest beer. The dough turned out really good. After a two day cold rise, I bring the dough temp up by leaving it on the counter for 10 minutes. A gas bubble usually appears on the dough ball and I release it by puncturing the dough ball. (As you can see on the upper left side of the dough ball.) The dough pressed out well and had a very nice flavor.

TomN

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #668 on: September 19, 2013, 01:07:24 AM »
Ray's Famous Pesto and Fresh Mozzarella Pizza

Tried the recipe in the book, Pizza, by Diane Morgan and Tony Gemignanim on page 52.

LOVED IT!!!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 11:52:56 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #669 on: September 19, 2013, 01:09:27 AM »
Start with your dough ball pressed out. Of course I used the dough ball made with Warsteiner Premium Oktoberfest beer. Also, I cook my pizza on a pizza screen.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 01:26:02 AM by TomN »


Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #670 on: September 19, 2013, 01:11:22 AM »
You can make your own Pesto sauce or buy it already made. I choose to buy the Kirkland Signature brand from Costco which was very easy to use and tasted great. Spread it over the pizza.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 01:22:54 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #671 on: September 19, 2013, 01:14:01 AM »
The recipe suggests to use  1 1/2  Tablespoons of fresh minced garlic and 1/4 teaspoon of Red pepper Flakes. I recommend a little less of each even on a 14 inch pizza.

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #672 on: September 19, 2013, 01:15:27 AM »
Slice pieces of Fresh Mozzarella and cover the pizza with it. When I did this, I was concerned that the slices were too thick, but the pizza turned out well.

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #673 on: September 19, 2013, 01:16:52 AM »
Finally, make sure there is a piece of Slice Olives on every piece of cheese and then scatter more olive slices over the top of the pizza.

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #674 on: September 19, 2013, 01:18:32 AM »
Bake at a preheated 425 oven for 14 to 15 minutes, depending on your oven and how the crust looks. Everyone loved this pizza and i will make it again. However, I can not stress enough to cut back on amount of the Fresh Minced Garlic and the Red Pepper Flakes that you spread on your pizza.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 01:21:15 AM by TomN »

Offline norma427

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #675 on: September 19, 2013, 08:17:50 AM »
Tom,

Your Ray's Famous Pesto and Fresh Mozzarella Pizza looks very tasty.   :D

I have some of the same Kirkland Basil Pesto and might give your dressings a try.  How did the pizza taste with that much basil pesto added?

Norma
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Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #676 on: September 19, 2013, 10:34:45 AM »
Hi Norma,

I thought the pizza tasted great, but I will definitely cut back on the fresh minced garlic and the red pepper flakes because it made the pizza very spicy. Also, I did not use all the Pesto that is pictured in the bowl. I used the bowl to stir up the Pesto so that it would spread easier on the pizza. The actual recipe calls for a 1/3 cup of Pesto for a 12" pizza. I am sure that I used more than that on my 14" pizza, but I love Basil.  At first, I was concerned that I had too much Fresh Mozzarella, but it melted just fine. Give this pizza a try. I think you will like it for a variety on your menu. Best to you.

TomN

Offline norma427

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #677 on: September 19, 2013, 11:30:24 AM »
Hi Norma,

I thought the pizza tasted great, but I will definitely cut back on the fresh minced garlic and the red pepper flakes because it made the pizza very spicy. Also, I did not use all the Pesto that is pictured in the bowl. I used the bowl to stir up the Pesto so that it would spread easier on the pizza. The actual recipe calls for a 1/3 cup of Pesto for a 12" pizza. I am sure that I used more than that on my 14" pizza, but I love Basil.  At first, I was concerned that I had too much Fresh Mozzarella, but it melted just fine. Give this pizza a try. I think you will like it for a variety on your menu. Best to you.

TomN

Tom,

Thanks for telling me how much Basil Pesto you used.  Good to hear you love Basil.  ;D  I do too.  I tried one pizza with the same Basil Pesto and added olive oil to the Basil Pesto, before I applied it to the pizza.  I thought the Basil Pesto on the pizza was really good, but I did not use as much as you used.   Will try again after your post. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #678 on: September 20, 2013, 01:20:28 AM »
Spaten Oktoberfest

Got an invite to a party this weekend and so i made dough tonight with Spaten Oktoberfest Beer. This beer had a good flavor and kind of a Malt / Hops taste. I am sure it will be great dough.

TomN

The Beer:

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/142/582

The Dough Recipe:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17415.msg245184.html#msg245184

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #679 on: September 22, 2013, 01:31:33 AM »
Langostino Lobster Tails Pizza (Wild Caught)

I have always wanted to try this. So, I bought these at Costco and they are Wild Caught Langostino Lobter Tails that have been fully cooked, Peeled, and ready to eat.  (Of course they are Frozen). I might try it with Tomato sauce, but for now, I used an Alfredo Sauce that i also purchased at Costco. An expensive pizza to make, but really great tasting.

TomN