Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????

[DNA Dan]

$100 Beer  Now that is crime. That reminds me of the $3500 Euro red wine I saw in France which was blessed by Pope. Slugs like to party too.

[Pete-zza]

Hey man.  I'm just trying to gauge whether you're actually serious about making great pizza or are just clowning around here instead of the more appropriate newbie forum.  

David,

There are times where, as a Moderator, I will actually move posts from the Newbie board to the general boards if I think the subject matter is of broad interest. Otherwise, the members may not look at the Newbie board because they think the subject matter is strictly newbie stuff. Conversely, I will sometimes move newbie posts from the general boards to the Newbie board if I think that is more appropriate. I tend to define a newbie as a rank beginner, not someone who has been making pizzas for some time but has generally failed at the task.

I think TomN's posts are fine where they are. I think this thread is one of the better threads on the subject of using beer in pizza dough. Once TomN is done, I might even move the thread to the General Pizza Making board.

Peter

[Dr Malt]

So to answer a few questions.

The yeast in Hefeweisen are active yeast when the bottle is filled. They remain active for a month or so in the beer but they have little food (sugar) to survive. A Hefeweisen that is a few months old will have a much lower viable yeast population then a fresher Hefeweisen. So check the date on the bottle when purchasing if you want some active yeast.

TomN, I see you got an answer to your question about the sediment in the bottle of Hefe. All hefes will eventually have the yeast sediment out. There is also some protein in the beer that sediments too. The older the beer and the longer it sits, those yeast tend to die and break open. This can cause the beer to take on a savory or meaty flavor. One solution if you have sediment in the bottom of a bottle of beer is to carefully pour off the beer without stirring the sediment.

Dr Malt  

[Meatballs]

The older the beer and the longer it sits, those yeast tend to die and break open. This can cause the beer to take on a savory or meaty flavor. One solution if you have sediment in the bottom of a bottle of beer is to carefully pour off the beer without stirring the sediment.

Couldn't agree more.  Mr. Malt, are you BJCP?  That was some deep info.

Ron

[Giggliato]

I would just like to say that I have been throwing dark chocalatey beer into dough for awhile now and everyone who has tried the pizza has enjoyed it, many have even asked if the dough is whole wheat, which of course it is not. Unfortunately I still do not understand why these dark beers are so unrecommended to use here, they are a bit tricky to use but why??

Also, all beer has yeast in it, I doubt most sieves are able to to extract every yeast cell. It is therefore feasible to devise a pizza made from beer, salt, and flour. Perhaps the salt is not needed.

[TomN]

Hi Giggliato,

I think that the change in color and the texture was the reason to avoid the darker beers. Perhaps the dough color change does not sell well in the Pizzerias. I will research more with those Pizzerias that gave me that advice.  However, GAME ON! i am willing to experiment with darker beers. What is the name of the beer that you used? Do you have a picture of the bottle? Thanks for the comment.

TomN

[Giggliato]

Hi Tom,

Depending on how much stout you use the color can definitely go from a nice yellow to an also nice brown. I use the seven grain stout from Hopworks,http://hopworksbeer.com/organic-beer/survival-stout I think it is the multiple grains that improve the doughs flavor. I haven't tried any other stouts though. I've mostly been using a 50/50 ratio of beer to water and I've also been experimenting with holding times and temperature. Even though the dough is good it is still not quite what I want.

I have been thinking about using a hefeweizen though, especially since the yeast from the bottle could be used to ferment the flour.

[David Deas]

David,

There are times where, as a Moderator, I will actually move posts from the Newbie board to the general boards if I think the subject matter is of broad interest. Otherwise, the members may not look at the Newbie board because they think the subject matter is strictly newbie stuff. Conversely, I will sometimes move newbie posts from the general boards to the Newbie board if I think that is more appropriate. I tend to define a newbie as a rank beginner, not someone who has been making pizzas for some time but has generally failed at the task.

I think TomN's posts are fine where they are. I think this thread is one of the better threads on the subject of using beer in pizza dough. Once TomN is done, I might even move the thread to the General Pizza Making board.

Peter

Thanks.  But I'm just screwing with the guy.  Mainly because he keeps screwing with me.

*turns to TomN*

[Jack Bauer yell]Put it down!!  Step away from the Rocherfort 10!!  Right now!![/Jack Bauer yell]

[TomN]

Hi Giggliato,

I have found good results with Pyramid Hefeweizen beer. It is reasonably priced and has a good flavor. As mentioned above, I have learned to watch for any yeast sediment that might be in the bottom of the bottle. Enjoy!!!

[johnnydoubleu]

Just like with cooking with wine, you shouldn't use a beer for cooking you wouldn't want to drink.

I would however try to choose a beer than embellishes rather than fights the typical flavor profile of pizza dough.

Many craft beers are way to hoppy so they are out. I would stick with a malty lager like a Paulaner (Original Münchner Hell) or a malty ale -- both being very light in the hop dept.

I tend to use regular Coors or Miller High Life if I am making pizza dough with beer because I am cheap and they are adequate. I have never run into an issue where the yeast couldn't handle the alcohol level and many of the pizzas I have made with beer were cosmetically superior when compared to those without it. I also like the taste. I would do it more but the purist in me is a little against it and it does add a little additional cost. Overall though, IMO, beer in pizza dough totally works well!

[Dr Malt]

meatballs:

No, I am not a BJCP. Just part of the industry.

Giggliato:

There can be yeast cells in beers, but Hefeweisens are processed to have 1 - 4 million or more cells per ml to provide the hazy character. A brighter beer may have some active yeast cells. However, if pasterized they would be inactive. If sterile filtered, they would be few and far between.

Just trying to help.

Dr Malt 

[Giggliato]

Hi Giggliato,

I have found good results with Pyramid Hefeweizen beer. It is reasonably priced and has a good flavor. As mentioned above, I have learned to watch for any yeast sediment that might be in the bottom of the bottle. Enjoy!!!

Yeah, I'm just waiting for the brewery I work at to produce a hefeweizen, have you tried franziskaner? That is some good beer, but there is no way I would put that in my pizza dough unless I had a case or two on hand. You wouldn't happen to know the boiling point of those banana flavored esters would you?

[TomN]

Hi Giggliato,

Thanks for the beer recommendation. I will try the Franziskaner beer. The Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse Dunkel appears to have the most flavor of their beers and looks great for dough making.  I am posting their website for anyone that wants to check them out.

http://www.franziskaner.com/3_products/3_1_product_spectrum/index.htm

[DNA Dan]

You wouldn't happen to know the boiling point of those banana flavored esters would you?

Most of the compounds are BP = 130-150C

[Giggliato]

Most of the compounds are BP = 130-150C

That's too bad then, the nice flavors will burn off...

[TomN]

I am trying the Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse Dunkel as recommended by Giggliato. My beer store recommended it along with a beer called Celebrator Doppelbock from Germany. I made dough with the Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse Dunkel in this batch of dough. I will try the Celebrator later.

Here is a picture of the beers and the dough. I took this dough picture outside in the sun so that you can see that the darker color of the Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse Dunkel has not effected the dough color that much. I have not yet coated the dough with a little Olive Oil before bagging it for the cold rise. I am looking forward to this dough since the beer had a sweeter flavor and it was very smooth.

[TomN]

The two beers:

Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse Dunkel - $3.00

Celebrator Doppelbock - $3.50

[DNA Dan]

Anyone know what yeast variety is used in that Dunkel for primary fermentation?

[Giggliato]

Here is a picture of the beers and the dough. I took this dough picture outside in the sun so that you can see that the darker color of the Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse Dunkel has not effected the dough color that much. I have not yet coated the dough with a little Olive Oil before bagging it for the cold rise. I am looking forward to this dough since the beer had a sweeter flavor and it was very smooth.

Hi Tom,

I hope your pizzas turn out delicious! I was reading your recipe and noticed that your flour is about 37% hydrated. Have you tried adding more beer to your dough? 

I also see that the beer is at a 2:1 ratio compared to the water. I have been using a 1:1 ratio but I think I will increase the beer amount.

[TomN]

I try to use 60 percent beer and 40 percent water (as was told to me by a Pizzeria friend) . I have increased the recipe to about 8oz of beer and 5 oz of water. Plus i add a table spoon of Olive oil. I pour the beer into the measuring glass and remove the foam, so it is 8 oz of beer. i have been very happy with the dough. I will continue to experiment with different beers, but I now realize that I must commit more time to sauce development.

I got some really good adivice on my Pizzaiolo thread

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18710.0.html