Author Topic: Using beer in your pizza dough  (Read 137241 times)

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buceriasdon

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2012, 06:26:48 PM »
Having limited access to the great variety of beers available to others north of me, my means of comparison are thereby also limited. That being said I agree with cosgrojo, it would be darn tough for me to identify one beer or another, but I don't have an educated palate perhaps that others possess when it comes to beer in pizza crust. I also find the addition of white wine or vinegar to have a pleasing effect if not taken to extremes.
Don


Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2012, 07:27:22 PM »
"And here we go" ........ Said the Joker.

I made a pizza with the dough i made with the Red Hook ESB Beer. in order, I cut the large dough ball into three. and them made three smaller dough balls, of which i used only one so far. Then pressed out the dough and put it on my pizza screen.

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2012, 07:33:14 PM »
Added Pizzaiolo Pizza Sauce by Stanislaus, added Kirkland Signature Cheese which is made for Costco by Sorrento. Added Carando Pepperoni, cooked Mayan Sweet onions and sliced Lindsay olives. I thought the crust turned out GREAT!!!. The crust was lighter and really did have more flavor. Specifically, it changed the texture of the dough, which is the REAL plus for me. I will make it this way again.

PS
I actually had to use a fork in the cooking process to put down some bubbling in the pizza that took place as it cooked. However,  it was well worth the effort.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 07:49:25 PM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2012, 07:35:53 PM »
By the way, Meatballs & Cosgrojo, I did pair the beer with the pizza that was made with the same beer, just like many of the restaurants ALREADY do. Also, I know a Pizzeria in my area that uses a different beer each month which is used in making their dough and serves that specific monthly selected beer with your order. They advertise the beer of the month as well with a banner. Like King Solomon said,  "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." Ecclesiastes 1:9
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 07:44:41 PM by TomN »

Offline cosgrojo

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2012, 09:55:30 PM »
Tom- there are places like you mention here as well... My focus is on liquids of many varieties, not just beer. My spin on the idea is a bit more broad spectrum. But thanks for the info! It's always good to know what's trending in other places. 

The pizza looks delish. Temp and time?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 09:57:55 PM by cosgrojo »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2012, 02:54:45 AM »
Crosgrojo, I was just joking with you since you made the comment to meatballs:

I use my home oven preheated at 425 degrees and cook for 15 mins.  Also, I am cooking my pizza on a pizza screen and the dough is hand pressed very thin.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 12:27:08 PM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2012, 03:07:07 AM »
RECAP:  Pizza Beer Dough Recipe

2 cups of Pendleton POWER Flour
2 cups of Pendelton MONDAKO Flour
1 Teaspoon of Salt - mix the salt into the flour
I add these all together in a large metal bowl. (Most Pizzerias use either one or the other. i am mixing the two flours, since I have a 25 LB bag and a 32 lb bag that I need to use up before expiration dates.)

1 1/2 teaspoons of Quick Rise yeast
1 Tablespoon of white sugar
4.8 ounces of warm water
Mix all together in a separate cup and let set for 5 mins

7.2 ounces of Red Hook ESB (extra special bitter) Beer set aside by itself in a separate cup (it is recommended to let the beer come up to room temperature or even carefully heat it in a microwave oven)

Mix warm Water, Yeast, and Sugar blend into flour
Add a Tablespoon of Olive Oil to flour and continue to mix
Mix in the Red Hook ESB (Extra Special Bitter) Beer into the flour

I do not use a mixing hook. I mix and kneed the dough by hand since I am making a smaller batch for home use and not in a restaurant setting that might need to use 50 lbs of flour per day.  (I mix, then kneed for about 5 to 10 mins, until it becomes one big dough ball.)
I then cover the mixing bowl with plastic wrap and set in the refrigerator over night for 24 hours or more.

After the overnight cold rise, I push down the dough and and shape it some more. Then I transfer the dough out of the bowl and into a gallon size plastic freezer bag and let it continue to cold rise.
Later in the day, when the dough rises more, I will make 3 smaller dough balls out of this one big dough ball. (I am using a 14" pizza screen to cook it on and I like the dough to be a THIN crust pizza, other wise i would only make 2 dough balls for a THICKER crust)  
When I am ready to use each dough ball, I let them come up to room temperature, then I hand press the dough ball into a 14" pizza shape and place on the pizza screen.
I use my home oven preheated at 425 degrees and for 15 mins on a pizza screen.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 03:44:46 AM by TomN »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2012, 03:26:50 PM »
Tom,

Does your pizza friend charge a lot more for the pizzas made using beer in the dough? Using 60% beer would seem to be an expensive proposition. Or does he have an inexpensive source for the beer?

Peter

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2012, 04:22:39 PM »
The prices:
Regular Cheese Pizza
12”……………………… $9.00        
14”……………………… $12.00      
16”……………………… $15.00
24-Cut………………….. $30.00

Add on toppings 12" $1, 14" $2, 16" $3, 24-cut" $4

Combination Pizza’s come Smothered in Mozzarella Cheese!
12”……………………… $16.99
14”……………………… $21.99
16”……………………… $26.99

The other Pizzeria/Restaurant that advertizes Beer in the dough:
Cheese Pizza
8"    $4.50
12"  $9.99
14"  $11.99
16"  $14.99

Additional Toppings Each:
12"  $1.50
14"  $1.75
16"  $2.00

Specialty pizzas:
Medium $15.99
Large    $18.99
XL       $24.99
24-Cut………………….. $49.99
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 04:37:33 PM by TomN »


Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2012, 05:27:40 PM »
Meatballs:

You are very knowledgeable about BEER, and I am not. What is the break down on Grolsch Beer and Hefeweizen Beer. It would seem that either of these would make a great dough? Would there be a problem to watch out for?  etc...   I value your thoughts on this! Thank you.

TomN

Offline Meatballs

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2012, 07:02:01 PM »
Tom,

Well, Grolsch is a German Pils style beer, a lager.  Hefe Weizen is a German Ale brewed with 50% malted wheat and a very, very funky yeast that produces banana and clove flavored compounds.  Maintaining a balance between the clove (4-vinyl guaiacol) and the banana ester (Isoamyl acetate) is the hallmark of a good beer and dependent very much on fermentation temperature. 

I would worry that the more volatile ester, the banana flavor, would blow off during cooking leaving the clove flavor out of balance, but this is a guess as I've never used a weizen in cooking before.  It would be an interesting experiment as the beer is very flavorful and could contribute a very interesting character not found in other beers.  I do know that Belgian beers that exhibit considerable phenols make excellent braises (Google: Carbonade).  A Carbonade is to a Belgian what Coq au vin is to a Frenchman.

The Grolsch is much lighter in flavor than a Hefe Weizen and exhibits a very delicate balance between hops and malt (the sweetness in beer).  The flavor contribution in cooking would mostly be in the sweetness of the malt and less of the ferment character as found in the Hefe Weizen.  Actually, the delicate balance of Grolsch would mostly be lost in a pizza dough and could probable be duplicated with a much less expensive lager, say... Miller.  But, please don't drink the Miller.  Well, when I'm broke and looking for a buzz I do, but, Steel Reserve is actually more efficient and economical even, but I digress.  I use Steel Reserve in my Chili, its my secret weapon in a heavy dish but the alcohol level puts it out in a dough.

Hope this helps,

Ron




Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2012, 01:36:37 AM »
Ron (Meatballs),

Tonight, I finished the last of my dough made with Beer. It was BETTER tasting the second day than the dough I used within the first 24 hours (from the same dough batch). So, I am definitely going to give my dough more time in the refrigerator before using it to make pizza.

Also, I was surfing the web tonight to see other recipes for Beer used in the making of pizza dough. (There is a lot of info out there.)  In one of the recipe details, they suggested that you use Beer that has come up to room temperature. (I did not even think of this) Will this have any effect on the dough flavor? Does the Beer temperature really matter?? Do people ever drink Beer at room temperature to get more flavor? Again, my Beer knowledge is very limited. Thanks

TomN
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 02:36:12 AM by TomN »

Offline Meatballs

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2012, 09:55:31 AM »
Tom,

Been busy with yard work the last few days, sorry. 

There are no beers that are intentionally drank at room temperature that I can think of, but, cellar temperature (54 deg. F) is appropriate for most ales.  English ales, commonly referred to as Real Ale in that country, are consumed at 54 def. F exclusively and are also of very low carbonation (1 atm. CO2 at 54 deg. F).  This is the warm, flat, English beer people often refer to.  I'm actually a bit of an expert on conditioning this style of beer and enjoy it immensely.  Beers in widget cans try to emulate this product, somewhat successfully.

As to warming beer for dough use, absolutely.  You would want to treat the beer used in dough making the same as you would the water component.  My dough recipe calls for a finished temperature at around 85 deg. F for which I add water (under normal conditions) around 112 to 115 deg. F.  Warming the beer in the microwave (carefully) would be fine. 

As to temperature affecting flavor...Its a huge deal.  The general rule is that lagers which are fermented cold should be drank cold, around 40 deg. F. (lager initial fermentation temp is 50 F. with an extended "lagering" or storage phase at 38 to 40 F) Ales which are fermented warm (Fermentation around 68 F) should be drank warmer, that's where the 54 deg. F "cellar temperature" comes in to play.  I use wine refrigerators to store my better ales, especially those that are aged.  If a beer is too cold when poured, I'll wait, hands wrapped around the glass until it warms to the proper temperature (proper being where I like it).  There are all sorts of exceptions the this rule but mostly its a good guide.

Try getting a quality Pale Ale from a good Microbrewery or Craft Brewery, put it in the fridge and let it get cold.  Open the beer and pour it into a glass and take a sip.  Note the flavors and the balance between the hops and malt and any other flavors present, esters from the fermentation, phenolic off tones etc.  Now, take a critical taste every few minutes as the glass warms and you will notice a pronounced shift in the balance between sweet malt and hop flavors and expression of fermentation esters (fruity flavors).  If you have a thermometer, take its temperature and see where you feel the balance of flavors is best.  Also examine the aroma with the temperature changes.

Always drink a beer from a glass and never the bottle or can.  The narrow mouth does not allow the aromas to be inhaled while drinking and throws the flavor profile off considerably, try it.  Different beers require different glassware to maximize the drinking experience, look to the brewer for suggestions of glassware until you learn the differences...guess I better stop here.  I can wax all day on this subject.

Ron





Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2012, 09:33:15 PM »
Thanks Ron for all the great Beer information. I tried the warm beer and i agree with you. Also, by letting the beer set aside longer, I noticed that the dough did not bubble up when cooking this time, but still had great flavor. Perhaps this is because some of the carbonation got a chance to escape.

I should probably save the following comments for another thread (and perhaps I will later), but I tried a whole milk DANISH style Mozzarella cheese on my dough made with the beer. I did this because I know of two different Pizzerias that say this type of cheese is what sets their pizza apart. One is by Sorrento and the other is by a company called Olympic.  I did try the Olympic Danish Mozzarella. I purchased it at a local cheese shop. Although it does not say Olympic, it is Olympic Brand cheese. It might be that the distributor is under contract to sell only to restaurants and thus re-wrapped it with their label. Either way, it was a great way to top off my pizza dough made with extra ingredients. I will include some photos of the cheese.

This Cheese is a creamer tasting cheese. More so than even whole milk Mozzarella cheese. However, I must add that this DANISH whole milk mozzarella cheese is very expensive at $4.99 a pound. (I can buy 5 pounds of regular mozzarella cheese already shredded for 11.99 total)  But i wanted to try it so much, I bought 5 pounds of the 10 pound block. What I liked about this particular Cheese Shop was that they cut the 5 pounds into 2 smaller blocks for me. This lets me shred the cheese easier.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 03:37:43 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2012, 09:33:55 PM »
other pics that show the process

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2012, 09:35:07 PM »
here is the other DANISH style mozzarella cheese by Sorrento Cheese. i did not get to try this one yet, but it comes with good recommendation. I am guessing that the two are very close in taste and texture. I will let you know when I find out the price.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 03:39:50 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2012, 06:02:44 PM »
I got to try the Sorrento Gold Whole milk Danish Style Cheese today. Another Pizzeria in my area uses it. There are only 3 in the state of WA that i know of that use Danish Mozzarella. I think that it really does make a difference, but it gets expensive. I continue to use it at home with my beer dough for now. However, there are times that i like Fresh Mozzarella on pizza.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 06:06:51 PM by TomN »


Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2012, 02:11:34 AM »
Ron,

I am not sure what kind of style this Samuel Adams beer is suppose to be?? It has a sweet taste and the brewery says that it has a half pound of malt in each bottle, enough for a loaf of bread. (see attached photos) This is what caught my attention, so I am going to try it in my dough recipe. Your thoughts once again appreciated.

TomN

PS
With a very limited release, 4 bottles (12oz ) costs me 10.99. If it wasn't for the dough experimenting, i would have passed on it.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 02:14:33 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2012, 12:06:57 PM »
I found some facts about this beer at the Samuel Adams website: check the Profile section

http://www.samueladams.com/enjoy-our-beer/beer-detail.aspx?id=7407b509-9535-47f3-b786-36f2cd4b4af0


Also, I made dough last night with it. Can't wait to try it after two days in the refrigerator. Even though this beer is a deeper mahogany color, it did not discolor the dough. Just a very slight yellow color in the dough. This beer is very sweet so I am looking forward the pizza. Again, this is a very expensive beer to make your pizza with, but I just had to try it. I will post a photo when I make the pizza.


Flavor: Strong malt and caramel character; very smooth, full bodied, low to medium bitterness
Color: Deep mahogany, 25 SRM
Original Gravity: 23.0° Plato
Alcohol by Vol / Wt: 9.5%ABV - 7.3%ABW
Calories/12 oz.: 323
IBUs: 40
Malt Varieties: Two-row Harrington, Metcalfe, and Copeland pale malts, and Caramel 60
Hop Varieties: Tettnang Tettnanger and Hallertau Mittelfrueh Noble hops
Yeast Strain: Samuel Adams lager yeast
Availability: Year round
First Brewed: 1988

 
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 12:09:50 PM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2012, 02:00:47 AM »
So far the dough is rising very well, even after only one day in the refrigerator. I will give it one more day in the refrigerator for flavor development. (2 days total)  You can see in the pictures that the dough has a hint of yellow from the beer and some Olive Oil. I like to let them develop in a gallon size Zip Lock Freezer bag. (Although in the past, I used a metal bowl with plastic on top) I give each dough ball a very very light coating of olive Oil which will keep it from sticking to the bag and adds a hint more flavor.  Each bag of dough will make 3 dough balls for three 14" pizzas. (six pizzas total for two bags)  I placed a quarter next to the bags so you can see the size of the dough compared to the quarter. Also, took a photo of a single bag next to a quarter. Can't wait to make some pizza soon and see how this beer makes the dough taste.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 06:42:20 PM by TomN »

Offline Meatballs

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2012, 06:47:55 PM »
So I guess you're wondering about the Doppelbock and what it is?  Yes dopplebock, German for Double Bock, but what the hell is a bock and why double it?  Well bock means goat in German.  What goats  have to do with beer is anybody's guess but... Its also the name of a high strength lager beer, thus the goat on the Sam Adams label.  Now increase the strength of the high strength lager (but not really twice the strength of a bock), about 1 and 1/2 times the strength of a regular bock and call it a double bock. So your Double Bock is about 7 to 10% alcohol  and a regular bock is about 6 to 7% alcohol.

So... A double bock is a corruption of the German Dopplebock, with nothing to do with goats but sharing the same name and is not really twice the strength of a regular bock...ok, there it is in a nutshell.

Bocks are know for their malty sweetness, but, beware, increased malty sweetness usually means increased bittering hops to balance the finish of the beer, so...a double bock, that is an American Doppelbock may be on the bitter side for culinary purposes.  The original German Dopplebock is low in hop but Americans are crazy where hops are concerned and often over hop European sytles to appease the American craft beer drinking palate (hop-heads in the vernacular).  But, if you have cooked with the beer and found no undue bitterness, then, its ok.

Bock and its attendant styles (Dopplebock, Maibock, Eisenbock and Traditional bock) are sort of winter warmer beers, big on the palate, malty, sweet and usually alcoholic.  Not something to drink all night but one to have before bed or after a meal.  Dobblebocks are traditionally named with "ator" on the end of the name, some famous ones...Optimator, Salvator, Celebrator...actually quite a list..I want to brew a South Alabama version "Alligator" Dopplebock and plan on doing so soon.  The Dopplebock with a bite.  I would consider bocks a good style to cook with but one to use caution on as the malt can be rather "thick" and American versions may be over hopped.

One of my favorite styles of beer....


Ron

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2012, 11:43:10 PM »
Thanks again Ron for the amazing break down of this beer and now I understand why they have a Goat on the bottle. This beer worked well with the pizza dough and I found no undue bitterness in the dough taste. I think this beer works well and makes the dough a little sweeter. I made six pizzas for two different events and everyone liked how the pizza dough tasted.

I guess the question I have to ask myself is: "Does the price of the beer justify the dough taste".  Personally I think it does for special occasions, but I do not see myself using this beer every time I make a pizza. The Red Hook ESB beer is priced much lower for my regular pizza making and produces very good results. I hope those reading this understand that every pizza is worth the effort, but my personal budget does not allow me to do this all the time.

Even the Danish Mozzarella Cheese is amazing, but that will also be for my special occasion events as well. (Again, a very expensive cheese ) However, I will continue to use Whole Milk Mozzarella every time. That is a must for me.  

This has been fun and I recommend everyone trying Beer in your pizza dough making process at least one time. It really does make the dough that much better. (I am not the only one saying this either) Have fun experimenting with the many different beers, but avoid the really dark beers in this dough making process.  Here are a few photos of the Pizza made with Samuel Adams Double Boch Beer.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 11:54:43 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2012, 02:07:46 AM »
With the on going Beer dough making experimenting, I tried what is know as a Brown Ale in making my dough. This beer is called "Moose Drool" and is made by the Big Sky Brewing Company in Missoula, Montana. While this is a very flavorful beer, it did not produce the same results as the Samuel Adams Double Boch or the Red Hook ESB beer. (the Samuel Adams Double Boch produced the best results, but costs the most per bottle)

The dough came out very well, but did not have the same flavor. Those who tried the pizza made the same comments to me. At this point, I am not going to try anymore Dark or Darker Beers. I am posting this comment to save anyone the time and trouble in your beer additions to the flour. I am sure there must be someone out there that will disagree with my findings, but I am going by what others that tasted the pizza told me as well.

Here are a few photos.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 02:12:32 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2012, 02:08:43 AM »
As you can see the dough did not change color that much, even though this is a Dark Amber colored beer.

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2012, 02:10:51 AM »
I made a 10 inch pizza and them my usual 14 inch pizza. Again, the pizza was good, but the one made with the Red Hook ESB was very good, and the Samuel Adams Double Boch was the BEST.


 

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