Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????

[TomN]

here is the other DANISH style mozzarella cheese by Sorrento Cheese. i did not get to try this one yet, but it comes with good recommendation. I am guessing that the two are very close in taste and texture. I will let you know when I find out the price.

[TomN]

I got to try the Sorrento Gold Whole milk Danish Style Cheese today. Another Pizzeria in my area uses it. There are only 3 in the state of WA that i know of that use Danish Mozzarella. I think that it really does make a difference, but it gets expensive. I continue to use it at home with my beer dough for now. However, there are times that i like Fresh Mozzarella on pizza.

[TomN]

Ron,

I am not sure what kind of style this Samuel Adams beer is suppose to be?? It has a sweet taste and the brewery says that it has a half pound of malt in each bottle, enough for a loaf of bread. (see attached photos) This is what caught my attention, so I am going to try it in my dough recipe. Your thoughts once again appreciated.

TomN

PS
With a very limited release, 4 bottles (12oz ) costs me 10.99. If it wasn't for the dough experimenting, i would have passed on it.

[TomN]

I found some facts about this beer at the Samuel Adams website: check the Profile section

http://www.samueladams.com/enjoy-our-beer/beer-detail.aspx?id=7407b509-9535-47f3-b786-36f2cd4b4af0


Also, I made dough last night with it. Can't wait to try it after two days in the refrigerator. Even though this beer is a deeper mahogany color, it did not discolor the dough. Just a very slight yellow color in the dough. This beer is very sweet so I am looking forward the pizza. Again, this is a very expensive beer to make your pizza with, but I just had to try it. I will post a photo when I make the pizza.


Flavor: Strong malt and caramel character; very smooth, full bodied, low to medium bitterness
Color: Deep mahogany, 25 SRM
Original Gravity: 23.0° Plato
Alcohol by Vol / Wt: 9.5%ABV - 7.3%ABW
Calories/12 oz.: 323
IBUs: 40
Malt Varieties: Two-row Harrington, Metcalfe, and Copeland pale malts, and Caramel 60
Hop Varieties: Tettnang Tettnanger and Hallertau Mittelfrueh Noble hops
Yeast Strain: Samuel Adams lager yeast
Availability: Year round
First Brewed: 1988

 

[TomN]

So far the dough is rising very well, even after only one day in the refrigerator. I will give it one more day in the refrigerator for flavor development. (2 days total)  You can see in the pictures that the dough has a hint of yellow from the beer and some Olive Oil. I like to let them develop in a gallon size Zip Lock Freezer bag. (Although in the past, I used a metal bowl with plastic on top) I give each dough ball a very very light coating of olive Oil which will keep it from sticking to the bag and adds a hint more flavor.  Each bag of dough will make 3 dough balls for three 14" pizzas. (six pizzas total for two bags)  I placed a quarter next to the bags so you can see the size of the dough compared to the quarter. Also, took a photo of a single bag next to a quarter. Can't wait to make some pizza soon and see how this beer makes the dough taste.

[Meatballs]

So I guess you're wondering about the Doppelbock and what it is?  Yes dopplebock, German for Double Bock, but what the hell is a bock and why double it?  Well bock means goat in German.  What goats  have to do with beer is anybody's guess but... Its also the name of a high strength lager beer, thus the goat on the Sam Adams label.  Now increase the strength of the high strength lager (but not really twice the strength of a bock), about 1 and 1/2 times the strength of a regular bock and call it a double bock. So your Double Bock is about 7 to 10% alcohol  and a regular bock is about 6 to 7% alcohol.

So... A double bock is a corruption of the German Dopplebock, with nothing to do with goats but sharing the same name and is not really twice the strength of a regular bock...ok, there it is in a nutshell.

Bocks are know for their malty sweetness, but, beware, increased malty sweetness usually means increased bittering hops to balance the finish of the beer, so...a double bock, that is an American Doppelbock may be on the bitter side for culinary purposes.  The original German Dopplebock is low in hop but Americans are crazy where hops are concerned and often over hop European sytles to appease the American craft beer drinking palate (hop-heads in the vernacular).  But, if you have cooked with the beer and found no undue bitterness, then, its ok.

Bock and its attendant styles (Dopplebock, Maibock, Eisenbock and Traditional bock) are sort of winter warmer beers, big on the palate, malty, sweet and usually alcoholic.  Not something to drink all night but one to have before bed or after a meal.  Dobblebocks are traditionally named with "ator" on the end of the name, some famous ones...Optimator, Salvator, Celebrator...actually quite a list..I want to brew a South Alabama version "Alligator" Dopplebock and plan on doing so soon.  The Dopplebock with a bite.  I would consider bocks a good style to cook with but one to use caution on as the malt can be rather "thick" and American versions may be over hopped.

One of my favorite styles of beer....


Ron

[TomN]

Thanks again Ron for the amazing break down of this beer and now I understand why they have a Goat on the bottle. This beer worked well with the pizza dough and I found no undue bitterness in the dough taste. I think this beer works well and makes the dough a little sweeter. I made six pizzas for two different events and everyone liked how the pizza dough tasted.

I guess the question I have to ask myself is: "Does the price of the beer justify the dough taste".  Personally I think it does for special occasions, but I do not see myself using this beer every time I make a pizza. The Red Hook ESB beer is priced much lower for my regular pizza making and produces very good results. I hope those reading this understand that every pizza is worth the effort, but my personal budget does not allow me to do this all the time.

Even the Danish Mozzarella Cheese is amazing, but that will also be for my special occasion events as well. (Again, a very expensive cheese ) However, I will continue to use Whole Milk Mozzarella every time. That is a must for me.  

This has been fun and I recommend everyone trying Beer in your pizza dough making process at least one time. It really does make the dough that much better. (I am not the only one saying this either) Have fun experimenting with the many different beers, but avoid the really dark beers in this dough making process.  Here are a few photos of the Pizza made with Samuel Adams Double Boch Beer.

[TomN]

With the on going Beer dough making experimenting, I tried what is know as a Brown Ale in making my dough. This beer is called "Moose Drool" and is made by the Big Sky Brewing Company in Missoula, Montana. While this is a very flavorful beer, it did not produce the same results as the Samuel Adams Double Boch or the Red Hook ESB beer. (the Samuel Adams Double Boch produced the best results, but costs the most per bottle)

The dough came out very well, but did not have the same flavor. Those who tried the pizza made the same comments to me. At this point, I am not going to try anymore Dark or Darker Beers. I am posting this comment to save anyone the time and trouble in your beer additions to the flour. I am sure there must be someone out there that will disagree with my findings, but I am going by what others that tasted the pizza told me as well.

Here are a few photos.

[TomN]

As you can see the dough did not change color that much, even though this is a Dark Amber colored beer.

[TomN]

I made a 10 inch pizza and them my usual 14 inch pizza. Again, the pizza was good, but the one made with the Red Hook ESB was very good, and the Samuel Adams Double Boch was the BEST.

[TomN]

The 14 inch pizza photos

[TomN]

THE EXPERIMENT CONTINUES:

I visited a Beer Store in my area to find "Samuel Adams Double Bock" to make another batch of pizza dough. While there, I discovered another Samuel Adams beer. This one is called "Samuel Adams Imperial White". It looks like a Hefeweizen style beer in color (a little lighter color than the Double Bock) , but has a very SWEET taste that was even sweeter than the double bock. (Just like the beer store told me it would) I used the same recipe for my beer Pizza Dough.

However, i made one batch of dough using the "Samuel Adams Imperial White", and the other batch using the "Samuel Adams Double Bock". I will let everyone know the results in a few days, after the dough has a chance to cold rise in the fridge for two days.

Samuel Adams Imperial White 12 oz bottle = $2.68

Samuel Adams Double Bock 12 oz bottle    = $3.38


Here are photos and then a Profile on the beer.

[TomN]

The Profile for "Samuel Adams Imperial White".

Flavor: All of the characteristics of a refreshing witbier, but with more flavor and body.  This beer delivers new and exciting flavors with every sip.
Color: Hazy amber, 17 SRM
Original Gravity: 23.0° Plato
Alcohol by Vol/Wt: 10.3%ABV – 8.0%ABW
Calories/12 oz.: 321
IBUs: 15
Malt Varieties: Two-row Harrington, Metcalfe, and Copeland pale malts and Malted Wheat
Hop Variety: Hallertau Mittelfrueh Noble Hops
Yeast Strain: Samuel Adams ale yeast
Availability: Year round
First Brewed: 2009


http://www.samueladams.com/enjoy-our-beer/beer-detail.aspx?id=3e251e6e-cfe0-4ffe-88bd-85da67e9e711


Ron, if your out there, would love to hear your break down on this beer. Thanks!!!!!!

[TomN]

Made two pizzas tonight. One pepperoni pizza from the batch made with Samuel Adams Imperial White and a pepperoni / Black Olive/ Red pepper made with Samuel Adams Double Bock. While both turned out really good, my choice was dough made with the S A Double Bock. From this point on I will use the S A Double Bock or use Red Hook ESB. (Depending on my budget) Red hook is the lower priced beer.

Also, i can not stress how important it is to use a Whole Milk Mozzarella cheese.

Finally, I am going to create another thread that include just the recipe and dough making process as a quick reference without all the experimenting logs.  This pizzamaking.com forum has really helped me a lot. I am really grateful for it.

[buceriasdon]

Great looking pies Tom!

[cosgrojo]

I agree with Don... Your pies are looking better each time out Tom. Since you are experimenting... Try a slightly larger rim on a pizza with the same batch of dough. I think you might be pleasantly surprised by the textural changes in your beer dough crust. I am enjoying your journey, brings me back to when I started experimenting... You are far more scientific than I am though... I'm kind of a science idiot.

[DNA Dan]

TomN, Are you able to tell the difference in flavor using different beers? Or is it safe to say there is more of a difference between a light and dark beer in terms of final flavor? I am often torn with just how much water to evaporate off on the beers I use. I know you have been using them straight. Any issues with the IDY in this regard? are you cold fermenting? Keep at it, it's looking good.

[TomN]

I want to be clear that i did not get this idea on my own. A friend that has several Pizzerias and who has been in the business for 20 years gave me the specs for the amounts of beer and water. He was very clear to use 60 percent Beer and 40 percent water. it was recommended to use 12 oz of liquid for 4 cups of high gulten flour. This means breaking it down to 4.8 oz of warm water and 7.2 oz of beer. I also add 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil to the water mix.

While the recipe is on the thread, here is a quick recap. The 4.8 or 5 oz of water,  is WARM water,  and I mix 1 1/2 teaspoons of quick rising yeast. I also add 1 Tablespoon of sugar, then set it aside for 3 mins to do it's thing.  

The Beer is poured into the measuring cup and I let it get a head of foam. This lets the beer release some of it's carbonation. I then spoon OFF the foam from the measuring cup and do not use the foam. Just straight beer that measure at 7.2 oz or just a little over. This is a measurement with the foam removed. When I did not remove the foam, my pizza dough really bubbled up in the oven.

Just as i am about to add the warm water with yeast/sugar, I add 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil and mix it up. I pour this into the flour as I mix it with my hand. (I have previously added 1 teaspoon of salt to the High gulten flour)

Then, I slowly pour in the beer and continue to mix it in the flour. I mix then kneed the dough for 5 to 10 mins till it becomes very Soft/ stretchy like texture. Coat the dough ball with a very very light amount of olive oil and them place into a 1 gallon Glad freezer bag. It is placed in my refrigerator for a min of 24 hours so it can COLD RISE. Later I divide the risen dough flat ball into three sections and make three smaller dough balls which will be used as needed.

ABOUT THE BEER: There is a flavor difference in the beer choice in my opinion. I ultimately Love the results and flavor when using Samuel Adams Double Bock Beer, but a lower cost beer that works well is the RED HOOK ESB. (Depends how much you can spend at the moment) While both these beers have amber / Darker yellow color, they are not what i consider DARK beers or stout. My advice is to avoid the really DARK beers, even a dark amber beer.

Finally, as you make the dough, if it seems to be too dry as your doing the mixing, just add a little bit more water. So far, it has turned out well for me. The more dough you make the easier it seems to get. Hope this helps.

[TomN]

DNA Dan,

I will try a larger rim on the pizza. THANKS for the advice.

[TomN]

A few other beers that I have been trying in my dough.

Duvel Belgian Golden Ale - worked very well, but at $12.00 for 750ml, it was very expensive beer.

Paulaner Salvator Double Bock - not as expensive, good flavor, but almost a little too dark in dough making.

Blue Moon Belgian White - Belgian Style Wheat Ale - lighter and work well, priced right.

Samuel Adams Alpine Spring - lighter in color, slight citrus flavor, work well, no comparison to the Samuel Adams Double Bock (different beers types of course, but i am talking dough making)