Author Topic: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour???? (Read 27261 times)

TomN · « **Reply #60 on:** April 05, 2012, 02:14:39 AM »

Tonight made dough with Pyramid Hefeweizen Beer. Worked well, nice color and flavor, will let you know how it bakes out in the dough.

TomN · « **Reply #61 on:** April 05, 2012, 02:18:22 AM »

Getting ready for a really great combination of products.

Made dough with Pendelton POWER Flour 40 percent water / 60 percent Pyramid Hefeweizen beer. (must give it 24 hours for a Cold Rise in the fridge)

ready to open a new can of Pizzaiolo Pizza Sauce by Stanislaus.

Purchased a 5 pound bag of GRANDE Whole Milk Mozzarella Cheese from a Pizzeria friend.

Have plenty of other pizza toppings, Sausage, pepperoni, Red bell pepper, Mushrooms, Black olives, etc...

CAN'T WAIT, will let you know the results.

David Deas · « **Reply #62 on:** April 05, 2012, 07:53:01 AM »

I can't even *imagine* wasting a half way decent brew in bread dough. And you're using Duval? Man. Go get some malt liquor or something and do this sort of thing with. Colt 45. Evil Eye. Old English. Steel Reserve.

DNA Dan · « **Reply #63 on:** April 05, 2012, 11:42:21 AM »

As long as the pizza gets eaten it's not a waste.

Besides, what's your beef with Malt liquor?

Evil eye..lol

Dr Malt · « **Reply #64 on:** April 05, 2012, 12:47:16 PM »

Just a few comments on some of the beers mentioned here.

Hefeweisen style beers are lightly hopped, mild flavored beers with alcohols in the 4 - 5.5 % range by volume. That hazy stuff in the beer is yeast. I don't know how that affects pizza dough but keep in mind you are adding some more yeast to your dough when using a hefeweisen.

Wit or Belgian white beers are often made with the addition of corriander and orange peel to give it a citrus freshness as a summertime beer. Most of the Wit beers out there have these added at low levels, but it might be worth tasting the beer before you use it in you dough.

Double bocks, as some of you have mentioned, are high in alcohol but also have some residual sugars as indicated by the sweetness. These sugars most likely are added food for the yeast in your dough.

Thanks. I hope I am not telling you something you already know. Just trying to help.

Dr Malt

DNA Dan · « **Reply #65 on:** April 05, 2012, 01:12:05 PM »

Dr. Malt, can those yeasts be cultivated? or is the purification process such that it renders them dead?

TomN · « **Reply #66 on:** April 05, 2012, 03:54:50 PM »

Dr Malt,

I really appreciate your comments. That explains why I like to use the Double Bock Beers the best. The texture of the dough, and the added sweetness taste, are an awesome addition to the dough. I do not use the most expensive beer all the time, but I am having fun trying them in the dough. (For me, it is not wasting beer. Then again, I am not a real beer drinker)

QUESTION:

I had to pour out a bottle of Pyramid Hefeweizen because there was a clump of stuff at the bottom of the bottle that came off and went into my beer glass. It broke up into pieces and looked terrible. Could this beer have been saved? Is that something that happens in bottles of Hefeweizen? Appreciate your comments.

David Deas · « **Reply #67 on:** April 05, 2012, 04:32:32 PM »

Quote from: DNA Dan on April 05, 2012, 11:42:21 AM

As long as the pizza gets eaten it's not a waste.

Besides, what's your beef with Malt liquor? Evil eye..lol

It's like putting filet mignon in stew. There are more appropriate cuts of beef for that sort of thing, which are in turn pretty inappropriate as feature steaks paired solo with asparagus and potato.

Letting Evil Eye, which is quite probably the worst individual beer brewed anywhere in the world, contribute to great pizza kinda like how a round roast can contribute to great stew seems culinarily correct. After all, pizza had been all about taking mostly mundane ingredients and magically creating something that is greater by far than the sum of its parts.

No beef with malt liquor. Everything has its place. Most brands of malt liquor are actually emergency engine coolants. And I'm chuckling as I type this entire post, but it really would be something if TomN could discover an appropriate consumptive use for Evil Eye.

All in good fun.

DNA Dan · « **Reply #68 on:** April 05, 2012, 04:46:34 PM »

Quote from: David Deas on April 05, 2012, 04:32:32 PM

It's like putting filet mignon in stew. There are more appropriate cuts of beef for that sort of thing, which are in turn pretty inappropriate as feature steaks paired solo with asparagus and potato.

I hear you, but you have to understand, with over $2500 invested in pizza cooking/prepping equipment I would actually use the best I could afford no matter what I was cooking. I guess it depends how much of a purist one is regarding their craft. If you really enjoy stew, then by all means use the fillet mignon. If you just want a mediocre stew, then use whatever part of the cow is cheapest. You get what you pay for in terms of quality.

You realize of course the cost of different meat cuts is much more drastic than say using a Pyramid Hefeweizen vs. Evil eye. Speaking of which, I have never heard of it, I thought you were making it up!

David Deas · « **Reply #69 on:** April 05, 2012, 04:49:53 PM »

No. I wasnt making it up. Evil Eye. Everyone has got to try it. It's so bad it creates something of a spectacle of entertainment that *almost* makes the $1.25 worth it for me.

TomN · « **Reply #70 on:** April 05, 2012, 05:41:16 PM »

QUESTION:

I had to pour out a bottle of Pyramid Hefeweizen because there was a clump of stuff at the bottom of the bottle that came off and went into my beer glass. It broke up into pieces and looked terrible. Could this beer have been saved? Is that something that happens in bottles of Hefeweizen? Appreciate your comments.

ANSWER: i called the Pyramid Brewery in Seattle and talked with one of the Brewmasters. He said that the clump was yeast and that the cloudiness in a Hefeweizen is actually the yeast as well. He pointed out that it might have been a bottle that had been setting for a while on the shelf. No need to throw away the beer.

The Brewmaster said that many times a Keg of Hefeweizen beer will be turned upside down for this reason. Also, shake the bottle of Hepeweizen a little before drinking it.

FINALLY, I created this thread as a place to experiment with all kinds of different beers in the dough making recipe. I really do not care how expensive or low cost the beer is in doing so. However, I try to use the best ingredients in my pizza making for family and good friends. After all, life is short. Enjoy it!!!

David Deas · « **Reply #71 on:** April 05, 2012, 05:46:19 PM »

I hope you know that my comments were tongue in cheek. It doesn't matter to me what type of beer you use as long as that's what you want and you're having a good time.

With one exception. The Rochefort 10. We only get so many of those in the US. You can't use that one.

TomN · « **Reply #72 on:** April 05, 2012, 05:59:55 PM »

LOL, I will try to locate some.

TomN · « **Reply #73 on:** April 05, 2012, 06:11:42 PM »

Just called my Beer Store and they have it on the shelf. The experiment will continue......

TomN · « **Reply #74 on:** April 06, 2012, 12:11:00 AM »

I got a call from family members to make some pizza this Holiday weekend, so I stop by my beer store on the way home. I picked up two beers to try because of the yeast/wheat content and sweetness. Doppel-Hirsch Bavarian- Doppelbock ( a double Bock beer from Germany). it is suppose to be smoother than the Samuel Adams Double Bock i have used before. (will let you know). The second beer is Trappistes Rochefort 10. (Thanks David Deas)

My concern with the second beer (Trappistes Rochefort 10) is that it's a dark amber color, but this is an experiment. The first beer (Doppel-Hirsch Bavarian- Doppelbock) is lighter in color and comes in a real cool looking bottle. The Trappistes Rochdfort 10 is in a smaller 11.2 Fl oz bottle. Might start with the bigger bottle first for dough making.

$7.59 a bottle for the Trappistes Rochefort 10 (Small bottle)

$4.99 a bottle for the Der Hirschbrau Dopp (Bigger bottle)

In conclusion, my beer store gets a once a month small shipment of a beer called, Pliny The Elder IPA. I am going to reserve a bottle and give it a try as soon as it is available. I have never used an IPA before. Any thoughts on an IPA in pizza dough?

David Deas · « **Reply #75 on:** April 06, 2012, 01:28:52 AM »

A Rochefort 10. A Dopplewhatever. And your beer store is receiving Pliny the Elder so you think you'll try that next?

You seem like you really don't know what you're doing here, just from a culinary perspective. You don't have much apparent ability to recipe, or imagine what something will taste like beforehand. Kinda just all over the place, with no clear direction. No idea what beer you're going to choose next so it's really difficult to guide your efforts.

The thing about beer or wine is that the complexity of the beverage is muted when you do something like throw it in some bread dough (which you've already been told). All you get is a product with some weird aftertaste. You could put Conti or Petrus in dough and you won't be able to tell the difference from the next red wine. This is precisely why there are things called "cooking wines" which are suited for this kind of thing.

If you're going to go with a beer, choose something lighter as was originally suggested to you. It was a good tip. Something like a plain pilsner would be great to 100% hydrate with. I've put IPA's in dough before (you cannot 100% hydrate with; too strong) as an experiment and the hop flavor comes through quite nicely. A lot of people like that taste (don't know about in their bread). As I said before, the complexity of the beer disappears so one IPA is just as good as another.

Hops are extremely bitter so be very careful. This has been explained to you before on page 1, but I'm trying again because you're now asking about an IPA here on page 4 (you're all over the place).

No, beer does not tenderize or make the bread lighter. Pure sham for marketing. Like NY water. Or spring water dough. Or whatever gimmick owners use to get you through the door.

DNA Dan · « **Reply #76 on:** April 06, 2012, 02:09:56 AM »

Do it ! Do it ! Do it ! Do it!

David Deas · « **Reply #77 on:** April 06, 2012, 02:22:18 AM »

Do you mind? I'm trying to help this guy so he can make some pizza that maybe more than just him and his family would enjoy. Throwing dark, chocolatey beers in pizza dough ain't going in that direction.

But if we just want a spectacle, then Sam Adams has a Utopias line that should be *real* good for tossing in pizza dough!

TomN · « **Reply #78 on:** April 06, 2012, 03:51:50 AM »

Once again, i can be all over the place. I started the thread.

Also, I put together my best recipe earlier in the thread and now i am up to the experimentation stages. I am just sharing the different results for fun.

If someone learning to make pizza dough with beer, asked me point blank, what beers to use, my choices would be Samuel Adams Double Bock (if price is not an issue) or Red Hook ESB (if you want the best beer for a lower price) I would also tell them use 60 percent beer and 40 percent water. (with a some Olive oil, yeast, sugar, salt, High Gluten Flour, put together properly, see the recipe) Also, I list the ounce amounts in the recipe.

I must also point out that the Duvel beer made a great dough too.

Final thoughts: While the SA double bock adds some sweetness to the dough, I do not think beer changes the TASTE as must as it affects the TEXTURE of the dough. Of course, a really dark beer will change the dough color. AVOID using stouts.

OK everyone happy now??? Be nice or i will run down to my local beer store, buy out all their Trappistes Rochefort 10 and pour it on my lawn to water it and to kill the slugs.

David Deas · « **Reply #79 on:** April 06, 2012, 07:38:52 AM »

Hey man. I'm just trying to gauge whether you're actually serious about making great pizza or are just clowning around here instead of the more appropriate newbie forum.

If you just want everybody to look at you, Pliny would be more exclusive than the Rochefort 10 so go with that one for the slugs. Samuel Adams Utopias is over $100 per bottle so that should be really attractive to you for bread dough and pesticide.

Either way I can help you.

So? Why do you think beer changes the texture? Is it the acidity? Use a wine or a fruit lambic then. Try Cristal.