Author Topic: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????  (Read 61521 times)

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Offline Meatballs

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #120 on: May 30, 2012, 03:22:07 PM »
Foam usually equals over-carbonation, or, if desired, very high level of carbonation.  This could be due to the style of beer or poor bottling practice.  Often a beer can become infected with a wild yeast that will eat sugars left by the  brewing yeast and referment in the bottle causing an over-carbonated beer.  When the cap is opened and the pressure released, nucleation points on the glass or leftover yeast particles in the bottle can cause the beer to gush or foam on pouring.  The high level of dissolved carbonation would certainly cause bubbles in a dough.

Ron


Offline SquirrelFlight

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #121 on: May 30, 2012, 05:51:20 PM »
Foam usually equals over-carbonation, or, if desired, very high level of carbonation.  This could be due to the style of beer or poor bottling practice.

Rogue makes a wide variety of different beers, some with lots of foams, some nearly flat.  A bad bottle can get through anyone's QC process now and then (although I've personally never had a bad Rogue), but I would assume that, in this case, it's probably the style.

Incidentally, being an Oregon beer (where I grew up), Rogue tends to use a lot of bittering hops, and I'd be curious how that translates into dough/crust flavor....

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #122 on: May 30, 2012, 08:06:48 PM »
Rogue makes a wide variety of different beers, some with lots of foams, some nearly flat.  A bad bottle can get through anyone's QC process now and then (although I've personally never had a bad Rogue), but I would assume that, in this case, it's probably the style.

Incidentally, being an Oregon beer (where I grew up), Rogue tends to use a lot of bittering hops, and I'd be curious how that translates into dough/crust flavor....

I thought that the Pizza Dough came out fine and the Rogue Northwest Beer did not have a heavy bitter taste/flavor in my opinion. Thus the dough tasted good. I just couldn't get over all the foam. (you can see my pizza bubbling up in the photo)

When I first started this thread, I experiemented with Red Hook ESP (Extra Special Bitter) at the recommendation of a Pizzeria in my area. When I last visited the Pizzeria, I noticed cases of the Red Hook ESB that were being used in their pizza dough making process. So bitter is ok, just not a Stout.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 08:12:08 PM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #123 on: June 14, 2012, 02:08:24 AM »
Visited a Pizzeria today that advertises the beer of the month that they are using in their pizza dough. In a conversation with the dough maker, he said that he uses 8 quarts of beer and 4 quarts of water in the dough making process. It is close to the 60/40 mix (60 percent beer / 40 percent water) that i use to make mine.  I am finding many pizzerias in my area that are using beer in their dough making. Although, some do not advertise that they do.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 02:16:10 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #124 on: July 24, 2012, 01:44:15 AM »
My kitchen has been undergoing a remodel so i have not been able to make dough for a while. Now that it is complete, I am back in business again. Some of my favorite beer to use in the dough making process is called a Double Bock. Samuel Adams has been making a great Double Bock. However, I recently found a Samuel Adams "CINDER BOCK". I tried to photograph the back of the bottle for the description of the beer, but it kept coming out white. Therefore. let me write out the description on the back of the bottle for you.

CINDER BOCK by Samuel Adams: BTW - this beer is 9.4 percent Alcohol

Smokey & Rich with a bit of Mischief.

Unusual and playful this half-breed brew begins with a rush of smoky almost savory, aromas and flavors. The distinctive campfire smokiness of a rauchbier lingers and begins to reveal the rich and velvety malt smoothness of a double bock with notes of toffee and caramel.  This roguish brew transforms from its bold start to a hearty and satisfying finish.

At Samuel Adams we love experimenting. This series of limited edition brews represents some of our favorite small batch creations.

BATCH NO. 1
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 02:05:09 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #125 on: July 24, 2012, 01:58:37 AM »
I used my recipe, only this time completely Pendleton Power Flour.

4 cups Power Flour with one teaspoon of salt mixed in. (in a metal bowl)

1 teaspoon and a half of rapid Rise Yeast in a glass of 5 ounces of warm water.
Add 1 tablespoon of sugar and mix with a spoon in the warm water.
After the sugar and yeast do their thing, add a tablespoon of olive oil to the mix and stir it up with a spoon.

In another cup, pour 9 ounces of the beer of your choice. ( i used the cinder Bock tonight)

Pour in the warm water mixture into the bowl of flour and stir in with your hand.
Then pour in the 9 ounces of beer into the bowl of flour and mix with your hand..

At this point: You can either kneed the dough by hand or use a mixing bowl with a hook - for about 10 mins till you feel the dough to be very soft and elastic like.

Coat the dough ball with Olive oil and put into a Glad freezer bag and store in the refrigerator for at least 24 hours for a COLD RISE.

After the cold rise process: This large dough ball can be divided into three smaller dough balls to make three 14" pizzas'.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 02:13:39 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #126 on: July 24, 2012, 02:02:39 AM »
I will post a the complete pizza picture later after the dough develops it's flavor. However, i want to show the difference between the Samuel Adams CINDER BOCK and the Samuel Adams DOUBLE BOCK. I am not sure if you can find the CINDER BOCK since it is a first batch release. I fortunately stumbled upon it. (The Cinder Bock comes in a 1 pint 6 FL. oz bottle)

i am hoping that this beer will give the pizza that "wood fire pizza oven taste", since it has that Smokey flavor to it. This beer, like all Double Bocks, has a sweet flavor to it, which makes the dough so tasty.

NOTE: Even though this beer is a darker amber color, it did NOT make the dough a darker color.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 02:29:00 AM by TomN »

Offline Meatballs

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #127 on: July 24, 2012, 05:56:36 PM »
Quote
Some of my favorite beer to use in the dough making process is called a Double Bock. Samuel Adams has been making a great Double Bock. However, I recently found a Samuel Adams "CINDER BOCK".

Actually the Cinder Bock is a Doppelbock (correct term for a "Double Bock").  A Bock beer is 6.3 to 7.2 percent ABV (Alcohol By Volume), a doppelbock is 7.0 to 10 percent ABV.  The distinction is important in baking, as for drinking.  American Craft Beer makers are terrible about properly labeling their beers and this leads to much confusion.  I have had arguments with people from Anheuser Busch to Cigar City brewing about this problem and I will continue, but, I digress.  The amount of residual sugars left in the beer after fermentation between the two styles is considerable and in proportion to the alcohol difference (usually).

Consider the Cinder Bock as a Doppelbock for baking.

Ron

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #128 on: July 24, 2012, 06:55:27 PM »
i am hoping that this beer will give the pizza that "wood fire pizza oven taste", since it has that Smokey flavor to it.

FWIW - there is no smoky taste in a WFO pizza. It bakes too fast and at way to high a temp to get any smoke flavor.

CL
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #129 on: July 26, 2012, 12:34:34 AM »
FWIW - there is no smoky taste in a WFO pizza. It bakes too fast and at way to high a temp to get any smoke flavor.

CL

Thanks Craig for the info.


Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #130 on: July 26, 2012, 12:42:58 AM »
The Samuel Adams Cinder Boch made the dough taste FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!! I will definitely use it again.

The dough did a great cold rise. I marked it to be divided into three, cut it, then press one part out into a 14" pizza that i placed onto a pizza screen for cooking. (this recipe makes three 14" pizzas')
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 01:09:40 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #131 on: July 26, 2012, 12:47:40 AM »
Decided to make a Pineapple and Canadian Bacon pizza this time with Pizzaiolo for the sauce, and Bella Rosano Whole Milk Mozzarella Cheese. Baked it in the oven at 450 degrees for 15 minutes on a Pizza Screen.

(I am including an older picture of my pizza screen for anyone who is trying this for the first time.)

PS
You can see my Kitchen Counter top remodel compared to the old counter in the pizza screen photo.  :)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 01:31:52 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #132 on: July 26, 2012, 12:48:33 AM »
Once again, the dough turned out fantastic with the Cinder Bock. The dough was pressed out thin, texture was light and very full of flavor. Worth all the high end ingredients and work.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 12:54:44 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #133 on: July 26, 2012, 12:49:39 AM »
I also had a request for half cheese and half pepperoni, green pepper, and mushrooms. It is nice to have extra dough on hand.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 12:55:32 AM by TomN »

Offline Giggliato

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #134 on: July 28, 2012, 11:24:49 AM »
Those are some strong beers you are making pizza with!  ;D ;D I'll have to try that cinder bock, but in the liquid form.

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #135 on: August 03, 2012, 11:47:06 AM »
Hi Giggliato,

As long as the beers are NOT a stout, they work very well. However, there is something about the Double Bock beers that makes the dough taste improve the most. I think it is the sweet flavor taste in them that brings it all together. On my last batch of dough, I used a little more beer than usual to experiment. (8oz normal, but did about 10oz of double bock beer this time).  The result is, what people would refer to as: "Sticky Dough". It turned out very nice, but it took extra flour and time to press it out. However, the nice thing about making it at home for you and your family, is that I do not have a line of customers waiting or watching the clock. So the pizza making is fun, not a job.

TomN

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #136 on: August 09, 2012, 12:24:28 AM »
Enjoyed this Beer in the dough making. Sweet tasting and makes a great dough flavor.

Offline TomN

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #137 on: August 09, 2012, 12:30:40 AM »
Samuel Adams Griffin's Bow

Made two different pizzas with dough made using this Samuel Adams beer. One pizza was a white Pizza and the other was a BBQ chicken pizza.

The Beer did NOT have a good taste for me. I was worried that the dough would not turn out very well. I even poured the rest of the beer down the drain. (FORGIVE ME Meatballs/RON) However, to my surprise the dough turned out AMAZING. Others that tried the pizza also LOVED the dough with this beer. I will use this again, but can't get used to the taste as a drinkable beer. Not sure how to describe this beer or what is really in it???? But, it worked!!!

Sorry, no pizza pictures to show you because the pizzas were eaten up as soon as they came out of the oven.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 12:04:12 PM by TomN »

Offline SquirrelFlight

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #138 on: August 09, 2012, 12:33:08 PM »
A Barleywine is normally a very strongly-flavored drink, and does take some getting used to.

Offline Meatballs

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Re: Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????
« Reply #139 on: August 09, 2012, 05:34:06 PM »
Barley Wines are the strongest of beers checking in at almost wine strength alcohol.  In obtaining that strength of alcohol in a beer an excess of unfermented sugars are often present.  Thus, barley wines are sweet on the palate and additional bittering hops must be added to prevent the beer from being cloying.  Very high alcohol strength beers (up to 13%) can be brewed with belgian yeasts that are not overly sweet but the flavor profile is different than a "regular" beer.  Barley Wine is basically an English style of beer using English style yeasts (great variation here but its a good guideline) which do not have a the alcohol tolerance of Belgian yeasts (which are often mutated wine yeasts).

These are beers to be sipped and a full 12 ounce bottle is an awful lot, unless you want to consider it a "split" between two people.  They are best aged, like a wine.  For optimal drinking, depending on the beer, year brewed, aging conditions, etc. I would recommend 2 to 5 years.  for cooking, aged is probably better as the bitter hops will die back and not bitter the dough, unless that is what you want.  I'm sure such a beer would express its flavors in a pizza, you seem to be moving toward very full flavored and high alcohol beers in your quest for pizza dough.  Unless the beer is in a Belgian style, higher alcohol will point toward greater residual sugars and more intense flavor.

Is ok not to like a beer.  Not every beer is for everybody, but, for me, every beer is ok for this somebody.  If you like this barley wine, try Bigfoot from Sierra Nevada, its the ultimate American style Barley Wine, at least for me.  I recommend 3 years of age although it can go longer, I currently have bottles back to 2004 and they are great, not the "sweet spot" but really good.

If you can track down a bottle of Hunnapuh, from Cigar City in Tampa Florida, I think it would have an immense impact on your dough.  If you can't get Hunnapuh (its really difficult), then try to find Marshal Zhukhov's from Cigar City, about 13% and intensely flavored Imperial Stout (a Barley Wine style Stout). 

Good Luck, I love commenting on this thread, personally, I like my dough plain but your escapades are fascinating to me on a beer level.

Ron