Author Topic: Using beer in your pizza dough  (Read 116738 times)

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Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #150 on: August 22, 2012, 07:16:23 PM »
Pizza De Puta,

Try letting your dough proof for 48 hours (for more flavor development) and use a Double Bock Beer for that sweeter taste or a Barley Wine Beer (11.6 percent alcohol). I am convinced that beer in the dough makes a BIG difference in flavor and texture. (There is no hair-splitting exercise, IMO.)

Also, coat your dough ball with Extra Virgin Olive Oil before you proof it in the fridge.

Finally, instead of blending the flours, just use the Pendleton POWER flour in your dough.

Best to you

TomN
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 07:18:28 PM by TomN »


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #151 on: August 22, 2012, 07:58:52 PM »
We had a blind taste test today when I invited a few friends over to sample several pizzas.  Pizzas #1 and #2 were both cheese and consisted of a 50/50 Power/Monkato blend of flour at 64% and proofed 24 hours.  #1 used water and #2 used 50/50 water and Fat Tire Ale.  Pizza #2 turn-out a little darker and crispier due to cooking variance which skewed the results.

The testers were told that the pizzas were "formulated differently" but little else.  One guest was a former Navy cook and beer lover who actually slightly preferred #1 for its "lighter" flavor.  His tea-tottling wife preferred #2 and was actually embarassed at the result of the test.  Tasters favored pizza #2 with beer slightly over the non-beer but it was really close.

The BIG surprised came when #4, a non-beer version that had overproofed, was reballed twice, and was 120+ hours old, was stretched and used at the last minute of today's testing party.  The flavor, texture, and spring of this dough, combined with a unique blend of toppings proved to be a KILLER.  While beer and water seems to be a bit of a hair-splitting exercise, addtional aging, 2nd & 3rd proofing, and reballing beyond 48 hours really got the tasters excited.

re, some of my best pies have been made from the "forgotten dough" that was found in the back of the frig 3 weeks after I put it there and then resuscitated it...... ;)
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Offline Pizza De Puta

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #152 on: August 23, 2012, 12:00:25 PM »
Try letting your dough proof for 48 hours (for more flavor development) and use a Double Bock Beer for that sweeter taste or a Barley Wine Beer (11.6 percent alcohol). I am convinced that beer in the dough makes a BIG difference in flavor and texture. (There is no hair-splitting exercise, IMO.)

Finally, instead of blending the flours, just use the Pendleton POWER flour in your dough.

Hey Tom

My local store has an extensive selection of beer but no Double Bock.  However, they did have Red Hook so I bought a bottle and made two 18" balls out of it, 50/50 beer/water.  I'll round up some tasters and have a double blind test this weekend.  This will give me more data.  Since my experimenting will ultimately end in a market crust, I am trying to be as careful as possible to get accurate, objective results.  Since introducing beer to the dough adds both material and labor costs, it is not an ingredient to be taken lightly.

My findings are that a 50/50 blend of Power/Monkato produces a crust that is a little lighter and less chewy than straight Power.  Straight Power seems a little better suited for a nice, heavy bagel.

Thanks again for the input.
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Offline Pizza De Puta

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #153 on: August 26, 2012, 11:04:19 PM »
Served 4x 18" pizzas today to 11 new taste testers:

Pizzas #1 and #2 were Volpi pepperonis with #1 64% hydration with water and #2 using 50/50 water/Red Hook beer.  All the pizzas had 72 hours to proof, none were reballed.  Bake time was 4:30 in the old Blodgett. The testers were told only that the dough formulation was "different" between the pizzas.  However, #1 came out a little over-charred on the bottom (read burnt), this invalidated the results.  Three testers preferred #1 and 8 liked #2 the best.

Pizza #3 was a straight 64% water hydration and topped with Columbus calabrese salami and mushrooms.  This pizza was tested by the tasters and a couple stated they enjoyed the mushrooms, but otherwise few comments were forthcoming.  I may have to develop some evaluation worksheets to gleen more structured information from the testers.

Pizza #4 was 50/50 beer and consisted of ham, linguica, bacon, fresh tomato, fresh basil, smoked mozz and a cheese blend.  Very popular in the flavor department but a little sloppy and mushy as my toppings were too-much for the crust to support.

In summary, the beer pizza was favored by most but the race was again really close.  Those who preferred the beer crust, did so by the slimmest of margins.  Several described the water-based crust as slightly lighter but the beer crust as a smiggen more flavorful.  This was the third and most elaborate of the beer tests and the trend that women prefer the beer crust more than men was again present--I won't speculate why.  Also, I am now convinced that the flavor difference between beer and non-beer dough is fairly small--at least with the Fat Tire and Red Hook beers I've used so far.  Two additional test parties and a free catering gig should yield more data next month. Since beer effectively doubles the price of a dough ball and adds labor, I'm scrutinizing this outcome very carefully.  Overall, I'm disappointed with this round of pizzas, they weren't awful but were a long way from where we need to be.

I was given an assortment of Blue Moon beer at the party, which type should I try, Tom?

Notes:

(1) Used Stanislaus 7/11 instead of Escalon 6 in 1 as a sauce base.  Today's sauce did not turn out as good as usual . . . one step backward.  Need to stick with 6 in 1, made only 7 miles from my house.  Escalon has a sweeter, brighter taste out of the can.

(2)  Compressing and reballing at 48 hours, allowing a 24-hour second rise, then baking at the 72 hour point seems to enhance the texture and eating experience of the pizza.  Reballing represents additional labor but this time and money well spent.  Today's straight 72-hour proof, without the reball wasn't as good as the reballed dough used during the previous testing session.

(3)  Cut the cheese quantity from 450 to 350 grams and increased the provolone ratio.  Wrong, wrong, wrong.

(4)  Very little oven spring today despite the 4:30 bake times.  Allowed dough 2 hours to come up to temp from the frig, may try to use colder dough next time.  Suggestions?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 11:48:23 AM by Pizza De Puta »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #154 on: August 26, 2012, 11:08:43 PM »
I believe this is very common......"Several described the water-based crust as more airy but the beer crust as more flavorful." 
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Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #155 on: August 29, 2012, 01:22:15 PM »
Pizza De Puta,

I have had good results with Blue Moon Belgian White. However, the real fun of making Pizza dough with beer is being able to experiment with the many different beers available on the market. (as you can see from the many beers that I have posted on this thread) Since you have all the Blue Moon beer, have fun experimenting and eating the pizza.

While some might disagree with me, I choose to NOT use any stout beers. They make the pizza dough to dark looking and tend to affect the texture of the dough in a negative way.

Also, only you can choose between water only or some beer for your pizza. IMO, I want to offer my friends and family something that sets my pizza apart from the average pizzeria in town. (Forgive my bragging here, because I do not mean it in this way) I will put my dough up against 90 percent of the pizzerias that I have visited. It is not that I am an expert at this, it is because they do not want to spare the extra expense for good beer and flour, nor the extra time to proof the dough (rise time).

Fortunately for me, I am not trying to compete with the $5.00 lunch pizza down the street. I make pizza to be enjoyed. It is a good feeling to present your friends and family pizza made with the best ingredients, not rushed for time or being concerned with profit margins. (no offense to those that have to make a living in areas where this kind of pizza is not marketable)

Best to you

TomN
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 01:50:44 PM by TomN »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #156 on: August 29, 2012, 02:54:55 PM »
The best beer dough pizza in town back in the day in Chicago used  "G. Heileman's Old Style Beer". Nutt'in fancy but boy it sure was GOOD!
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #157 on: August 29, 2012, 02:55:41 PM »
Make ya dizzy too!   ;D
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Offline dipizzaepizzerie

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #158 on: August 30, 2012, 06:59:38 AM »
I visited a Pizzeria today (01/24/2012) that is using Pendleton Mondako Flour Pre-Mix. However, instead of using water, they are using beer. I did not get to try the pizza (as I did not have enough time) but it caught my attention and made me want to try it. I asked the owner about this and he said that you have to use a lighter color beer (just not a dark beer). Beer makes the dough lighter in texture (so I am told). Also, they change the beer each month to create interest and variety for their customers. They have used:  Samuel Adams Whitewater IPA, a Hefeweizen beer, etc.

I was curious if anyone has tried this and are there any DO's or DON'Ts that you recommend in this type of dough making process? Finally, is this for real or is this just a marketing novelty? THANK YOU as always.

TomN
that's quite an interesting thread.
I'm an italian former pizza chef and when I was working I heard of someone using  beer, either instead or with water, to speed up the rising process.
But only "in case of emergency".. not as a everyday habit. The reason is that the ferments in the beer combine with those of the yeast (especially if you use baker's yeast- as almost everyone do in italy) and alter the rising. Yes, the dough rises in much less time but it's likely to be undigestible,  can swell in your stomach and make you feel bloated.
I've never used beer in my pizzeria and never eaten a pizza prepared in this way, but I'l dove to hear how you cope with this downside...
Thank you



Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #159 on: August 30, 2012, 06:25:52 PM »
that's quite an interesting thread.
I'm an italian former pizza chef and when I was working I heard of someone using  beer, either instead or with water, to speed up the rising process.
But only "in case of emergency".. not as a everyday habit. The reason is that the ferments in the beer combine with those of the yeast (especially if you use baker's yeast- as almost everyone do in italy) and alter the rising. Yes, the dough rises in much less time but it's likely to be undigestible,  can swell in your stomach and make you feel bloated.
I've never used beer in my pizzeria and never eaten a pizza prepared in this way, but I'l dove to hear how you cope with this downside...
Thank you



Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is what makes this website great. However, I can name ten pizzerias (in my area of the country) that are using dough made with 60 percent beer / 40 percent water in their dough recipe. It has nothing to do with emergency dough rising time, since they do a cold rise for a minimum of 24 hours. It has to do with flavor and texture.

Also, I have never heard of anyone feeling bloated or complain about any downside. (Unless they have eaten too much pizza. LOL ) When you cook with wine or beer the alcohol is gone but the flavor remains. Like many other recipes, other than pizza dough. Examples: Beer Battered Fish, Red or White Wine in sauces, etc...

Once again, I created this thread to explore and highlight another method for pizza dough making. If you are against beer in your dough making process. DON"T use it. If you like beer in your dough making process, then USE it. It's all up to you. The advantage of making pizza at home is that you can make and enjoy the pizza just the way you want it to be. Also, you can use the very best ingredients.

In the mean time, I will continue to explore more beers to use.

Best to you as always.

TomN
PS
My first entry to this thread was my discovery of using beer in the dough making process. Skip to page 7 for the updated recipe and continue to check this thread because I will be exploring other beers to use.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 09:38:36 AM by TomN »

Offline dipizzaepizzerie

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #160 on: August 31, 2012, 09:30:46 AM »
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is what makes this website great. However, I can name ten pizzerias (in my area of the country) that are using dough made with 60 percent beer / 40 percent water in their dough recipe. It has nothing to do with emergency dough rising time, since they do a cold rise for a minimum of 24 hours. It has to do with flavor and texture.

Also, I have never heard of anyone feeling bloated or complain about any downside. (Unless they have eaten too much pizza. LOL ) When you cook with wine or beer the alcohol is gone but the flavor remains. Like many other recipes, other than pizza dough. Examples: Beer Battered Fish, Red or White Wine in sauces, etc...

Once again, I created this thread to highlight another possibility for pizza dough making. If you are against beer in your dough making process. DON"T use it. If you like beer in your dough making process, then USE it. It's all up to you. In the mean time, I will continue to explore more beers to use.

Best to you as always.

TomN
PS
My first entry to this thread was my discovery of using beer in the dough making process. Skip to page 7 for the updated recipe and continue to check this thread because I will be exploring other beers to use.

Sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to run you down...
I was just adding my opinion to the thread.
Bye

P.S. I do cook with wine a lot. I'm Italian. But the point in dough making is the presence of the ferments of the yeast...
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 10:01:08 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #161 on: August 31, 2012, 09:45:58 AM »
No offense was taken. I appreciate your comments on the subject. Forgive me if I sounded harsh. I didn't mean to be.

Best to You,

TomN

Offline dipizzaepizzerie

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #162 on: August 31, 2012, 09:54:02 AM »
No offense was taken. I appreciate your comments on the subject. Forgive me if I sounded harsh. I didn't mean to be.

Best to You,

TomN

No propblem at all :D
Bye
Daniela

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #163 on: August 31, 2012, 02:00:16 PM »
Sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to run you down...
I was just adding my opinion to the thread.
Bye

P.S. I do cook with wine a lot. I'm Italian. But the point in dough making is the presence of the ferments of the yeast...

Beer man...BEER!!    ::)
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Offline Meatballs

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #164 on: August 31, 2012, 04:45:20 PM »
Quote
No offense was taken. I appreciate your comments on the subject. Forgive me if I sounded harsh. I didn't mean to be.

Best to You,

TomN
 
No problem at all Cheesy
Bye
Daniela

Glad everybody  is happy, I wanted to post on this but didn't want to offend anybody figure it's safe now, so... bloating and beer, an explanation. 

Yeasty beer can cause bloating, I mean real bloating.  A full feeling, flatus and a general feeling of Blah.  This occurs usually with unfiltered beer that has live EXCESSIVE yeast in suspension.  If the beer seems cloudy, more than just a little hazy, and more than a small glassful is consumed it can cause problems.  I have extensive experience with this effect as I consume large quantities of unfiltered beer when attending festivals and judging and I think this is the effect that Daniela is referring to.  It should not present a problem if the dough is cooked, even if the yeastiest beer is used.  The problem occurs when the live yeast begins to ferment in your innards, and lasts for 24 hours or so.

If you use part of a bottle conditioned beer in your dough and roust the yeast from the bottom of the bottle for inclusion into the dough, don't drink the rest, well, that's the recommendation at least, you could enjoy it and just blame it on the pizza.  There is nothing in beer to cause GI problems when used in cooking.  Overly yeasty beer can cause problems when drank in quantity, as described by Daniela.

Ron


Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #165 on: August 31, 2012, 06:03:57 PM »
Hello Meatballs (Ron),

Could you explain what bottle conditioned beer means? I have seen it on a few of the beers that I have tried but never understood the meaning. Thanks again for your expert advice.

TomN

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #166 on: September 01, 2012, 01:29:02 AM »
Its all about the flavor! I honestly feel the yeast of today is not the yeast of 60, 70, 80 years ago. It's very tasteless and adds little to the flavor of the dough. I am speaking in terms of retail yeast. I get more and better flavor from cultivating my own brewing yeast than I do using ADY or IDY. Beer is just a much easier route to take.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #167 on: September 01, 2012, 09:35:19 AM »
Its all about the flavor! I honestly feel the yeast of today is not the yeast of 60, 70, 80 years ago. It's very tasteless and adds little to the flavor of the dough. I am speaking in terms of retail yeast. I get more and better flavor from cultivating my own brewing yeast than I do using ADY or IDY. Beer is just a much easier route to take.
+1   Even just 40 yrs. ago Dan. When I'd mix up some cake yeast with hot water, getting it ready for the big Hobart, the whole restaurant would smell like I was baking bread or sum'in back there in the kitchen!  ;D
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Offline Meatballs

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #168 on: September 01, 2012, 05:56:21 PM »
For TomN,

Quote
Could you explain what bottle conditioned beer means? I have seen it on a few of the beers that I have tried but never understood the meaning. Thanks again for your expert advice.

Sure.  Bottle conditioned refers to the way carbonation was introduced into the beer.  In this case, in the bottle.  After the beer is fermented, its bottled and then a small dose of sugar or other fermentable product is introduce before capping.  The live yeast in the bottle ferments the new sugars into CO2 and Ethanol and carbonates the beer.  Many (including myself) believe this process produces the best carbonation with a finer bead (bubble size) and smoother mouthfeel.  It does, however, leave a residual layer of yeast on the bottom of the bottle, the beer must be poured off of this yeast layer so as not to cloud the beer and cause bloating.  On of my favorite beer faux pas is when someone drinks a bottle conditioned beer from the bottle, swirling up the yeast and, well, probably bloats themselves.  The yeast layer (along with other sediments in the bottom" is called the "Lees".  The "beer must be poured off of the lees to remain clear and flavorful".  There are exceptions, of course, German wheat beers on the lees may be rolled on the table to roust the yeast and re-suspend it to be served "Mit Hefe" or with yeast.  It is recognized as a laxative in Germany and a cure for constipation as well as a very popular way to serve the beer.  I like mine "krystal", clear and poured off of the lees, many Germans find that funny but I am very susceptible to yeast bloating.  I have my stories and my witnesses to this.

Hope this helps,

Ron

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #169 on: September 04, 2012, 12:00:59 PM »
Thanks Ron!!!!!!

Offline Pizza De Puta

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #170 on: September 08, 2012, 11:59:11 PM »
After several taste testers complained the last time that my water-only crusts were "bland", I decided to give beer another try in search of some elusive flavor.  Blue Moon Summer Wheat was in the frig so into the mix it went.  Only one complaint about tasteless crust today from a college kid.  I thought the crust had significant flavor, however.  Used about a 60/40 ratio of water to beer in prepping 12 dough balls (could have used another bottle).

Convinced more than ever that beer DOES generally improve flavor of the finished crust when added to pizza dough but it takes a more sensitive palate to appreciate this addition.  Some tasters will have a definite opinion (usually positive) others will see no difference.  A great way to go if one's crust is lacking charisma--like mine.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 12:10:06 AM by Pizza De Puta »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #171 on: September 09, 2012, 11:35:31 AM »
After several taste testers complained the last time that my water-only crusts were "bland", I decided to give beer another try in search of some elusive flavor.  Blue Moon Summer Wheat was in the frig so into the mix it went.  Only one complaint about tasteless crust today from a college kid.  I thought the crust had significant flavor, however.  Used about a 60/40 ratio of water to beer in prepping 12 dough balls (could have used another bottle).

Convinced more than ever that beer DOES generally improve flavor of the finished crust when added to pizza dough but it takes a more sensitive palate to appreciate this addition.  Some tasters will have a definite opinion (usually positive) others will see no difference.  A great way to go if one's crust is lacking charisma--like mine.
fwiw....I believe the flavor becomes more pronounced when one is inside the environment (restaurant) where this dough is baked day in day out...
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Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #172 on: September 10, 2012, 12:55:03 AM »
fwiw....I believe the flavor becomes more pronounced when one is inside the environment (restaurant) where this dough is baked day in day out...

I have to say there is truth in that statement. I have my oven in the garage and if I cook about 2-3 pies in a row, the grease of the pies quickly takes over the stale garage smell. It actually persists about 2 days. I can't imagine how great it would smell if I cooked in it everyday, 100 pies a day. I wish I could just pipe the exhaust on the oven into my house.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #173 on: September 10, 2012, 05:24:13 AM »
I wish I could just pipe the exhaust on the oven into my house.
8)
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Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #174 on: September 11, 2012, 08:37:28 AM »
After several taste testers complained the last time that my water-only crusts were "bland", I decided to give beer another try in search of some elusive flavor.

Another option, try adding 0.5% garlic powder. I did experience the blend taste with my water only recipe. The small amount of garlic powder did improve the taste of the crust and it does not taste garlicy.
Bert


 

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