Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????

[dipizzaepizzerie]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is what makes this website great. However, I can name ten pizzerias (in my area of the country) that are using dough made with 60 percent beer / 40 percent water in their dough recipe. It has nothing to do with emergency dough rising time, since they do a cold rise for a minimum of 24 hours. It has to do with flavor and texture.

Also, I have never heard of anyone feeling bloated or complain about any downside. (Unless they have eaten too much pizza. LOL ) When you cook with wine or beer the alcohol is gone but the flavor remains. Like many other recipes, other than pizza dough. Examples: Beer Battered Fish, Red or White Wine in sauces, etc...

Once again, I created this thread to highlight another possibility for pizza dough making. If you are against beer in your dough making process. DON"T use it. If you like beer in your dough making process, then USE it. It's all up to you. In the mean time, I will continue to explore more beers to use.

Best to you as always.

TomN
PS
My first entry to this thread was my discovery of using beer in the dough making process. Skip to page 7 for the updated recipe and continue to check this thread because I will be exploring other beers to use.

Sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to run you down...
I was just adding my opinion to the thread.
Bye

P.S. I do cook with wine a lot. I'm Italian. But the point in dough making is the presence of the ferments of the yeast...

[TomN]

No offense was taken. I appreciate your comments on the subject. Forgive me if I sounded harsh. I didn't mean to be.

Best to You,

TomN

[dipizzaepizzerie]

No offense was taken. I appreciate your comments on the subject. Forgive me if I sounded harsh. I didn't mean to be.

Best to You,

TomN

No propblem at all
Bye
Daniela

[Chicago Bob]

Sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to run you down...
I was just adding my opinion to the thread.
Bye

P.S. I do cook with wine a lot. I'm Italian. But the point in dough making is the presence of the ferments of the yeast...

Beer man...BEER!!   

[Meatballs]

No offense was taken. I appreciate your comments on the subject. Forgive me if I sounded harsh. I didn't mean to be.

Best to You,

TomN
 
No problem at all Cheesy
Bye
Daniela

Glad everybody  is happy, I wanted to post on this but didn't want to offend anybody figure it's safe now, so... bloating and beer, an explanation. 

Yeasty beer can cause bloating, I mean real bloating.  A full feeling, flatus and a general feeling of Blah.  This occurs usually with unfiltered beer that has live EXCESSIVE yeast in suspension.  If the beer seems cloudy, more than just a little hazy, and more than a small glassful is consumed it can cause problems.  I have extensive experience with this effect as I consume large quantities of unfiltered beer when attending festivals and judging and I think this is the effect that Daniela is referring to.  It should not present a problem if the dough is cooked, even if the yeastiest beer is used.  The problem occurs when the live yeast begins to ferment in your innards, and lasts for 24 hours or so.

If you use part of a bottle conditioned beer in your dough and roust the yeast from the bottom of the bottle for inclusion into the dough, don't drink the rest, well, that's the recommendation at least, you could enjoy it and just blame it on the pizza.  There is nothing in beer to cause GI problems when used in cooking.  Overly yeasty beer can cause problems when drank in quantity, as described by Daniela.

Ron

[TomN]

Hello Meatballs (Ron),

Could you explain what bottle conditioned beer means? I have seen it on a few of the beers that I have tried but never understood the meaning. Thanks again for your expert advice.

TomN

[DNA Dan]

Its all about the flavor! I honestly feel the yeast of today is not the yeast of 60, 70, 80 years ago. It's very tasteless and adds little to the flavor of the dough. I am speaking in terms of retail yeast. I get more and better flavor from cultivating my own brewing yeast than I do using ADY or IDY. Beer is just a much easier route to take.

[Chicago Bob]

Its all about the flavor! I honestly feel the yeast of today is not the yeast of 60, 70, 80 years ago. It's very tasteless and adds little to the flavor of the dough. I am speaking in terms of retail yeast. I get more and better flavor from cultivating my own brewing yeast than I do using ADY or IDY. Beer is just a much easier route to take.

+1   Even just 40 yrs. ago Dan. When I'd mix up some cake yeast with hot water, getting it ready for the big Hobart, the whole restaurant would smell like I was baking bread or sum'in back there in the kitchen! 

[Meatballs]

For TomN,

Could you explain what bottle conditioned beer means? I have seen it on a few of the beers that I have tried but never understood the meaning. Thanks again for your expert advice.

Sure.  Bottle conditioned refers to the way carbonation was introduced into the beer.  In this case, in the bottle.  After the beer is fermented, its bottled and then a small dose of sugar or other fermentable product is introduce before capping.  The live yeast in the bottle ferments the new sugars into CO2 and Ethanol and carbonates the beer.  Many (including myself) believe this process produces the best carbonation with a finer bead (bubble size) and smoother mouthfeel.  It does, however, leave a residual layer of yeast on the bottom of the bottle, the beer must be poured off of this yeast layer so as not to cloud the beer and cause bloating.  On of my favorite beer faux pas is when someone drinks a bottle conditioned beer from the bottle, swirling up the yeast and, well, probably bloats themselves.  The yeast layer (along with other sediments in the bottom" is called the "Lees".  The "beer must be poured off of the lees to remain clear and flavorful".  There are exceptions, of course, German wheat beers on the lees may be rolled on the table to roust the yeast and re-suspend it to be served "Mit Hefe" or with yeast.  It is recognized as a laxative in Germany and a cure for constipation as well as a very popular way to serve the beer.  I like mine "krystal", clear and poured off of the lees, many Germans find that funny but I am very susceptible to yeast bloating.  I have my stories and my witnesses to this.

Hope this helps,

Ron

[TomN]

Thanks Ron!!!!!!

[Pizza De Puta]

After several taste testers complained the last time that my water-only crusts were "bland", I decided to give beer another try in search of some elusive flavor.  Blue Moon Summer Wheat was in the frig so into the mix it went.  Only one complaint about tasteless crust today from a college kid.  I thought the crust had significant flavor, however.  Used about a 60/40 ratio of water to beer in prepping 12 dough balls (could have used another bottle).

Convinced more than ever that beer DOES generally improve flavor of the finished crust when added to pizza dough but it takes a more sensitive palate to appreciate this addition.  Some tasters will have a definite opinion (usually positive) others will see no difference.  A great way to go if one's crust is lacking charisma--like mine.

[Chicago Bob]

After several taste testers complained the last time that my water-only crusts were "bland", I decided to give beer another try in search of some elusive flavor.  Blue Moon Summer Wheat was in the frig so into the mix it went.  Only one complaint about tasteless crust today from a college kid.  I thought the crust had significant flavor, however.  Used about a 60/40 ratio of water to beer in prepping 12 dough balls (could have used another bottle).

Convinced more than ever that beer DOES generally improve flavor of the finished crust when added to pizza dough but it takes a more sensitive palate to appreciate this addition.  Some tasters will have a definite opinion (usually positive) others will see no difference.  A great way to go if one's crust is lacking charisma--like mine.

fwiw....I believe the flavor becomes more pronounced when one is inside the environment (restaurant) where this dough is baked day in day out...

[DNA Dan]

fwiw....I believe the flavor becomes more pronounced when one is inside the environment (restaurant) where this dough is baked day in day out...

I have to say there is truth in that statement. I have my oven in the garage and if I cook about 2-3 pies in a row, the grease of the pies quickly takes over the stale garage smell. It actually persists about 2 days. I can't imagine how great it would smell if I cooked in it everyday, 100 pies a day. I wish I could just pipe the exhaust on the oven into my house.

[Chicago Bob]

I wish I could just pipe the exhaust on the oven into my house.

[MightyPizzaOven]

After several taste testers complained the last time that my water-only crusts were "bland", I decided to give beer another try in search of some elusive flavor.

Another option, try adding 0.5% garlic powder. I did experience the blend taste with my water only recipe. The small amount of garlic powder did improve the taste of the crust and it does not taste garlicy.

[TomN]

After several taste testers complained the last time that my water-only crusts were "bland", I decided to give beer another try in search of some elusive flavor.  Blue Moon Summer Wheat was in the frig so into the mix it went.  Only one complaint about tasteless crust today from a college kid.  I thought the crust had significant flavor, however.  Used about a 60/40 ratio of water to beer in prepping 12 dough balls (could have used another bottle).

Convinced more than ever that beer DOES generally improve flavor of the finished crust when added to pizza dough but it takes a more sensitive palate to appreciate this addition.  Some tasters will have a definite opinion (usually positive) others will see no difference.  A great way to go if one's crust is lacking charisma--like mine.

Hello Pizza De Puta,

I can usually tell pizza dough that has used beer in the dough making process. However, I have friends that can't. Overall, I think that it makes a big difference in the taste and texture. Glad you enjoyed it with the beer.

As we move into October, I plan to try many of the seasonal Octoberfest beers that will be available soon. I will keep you posted.

TomN

[TomN]

Samuel Adams Seasonal Brew Octoberfest

Made dough tonight with Samuel Adams Octoberfest beer. This beer has a great flavor, nice color, and the dough had a wonderful aroma as I kneaded it. I have it in the fridge for a cold rise for 24 hours or more. I will let you know the baking results later. This is one beer that I look forward to using again. (While it is in season)

(Mix in a bowl)
4 cups Pendleton Power Flour
1 teaspoon salt
1 Tablespoon of Extra Virgin Olive oil (or a quick pour)

(Mix in a glass)
1 & 1/2 teaspoon Quick Rise Yeast
1/2 teaspoon of sugar
5 ounces warm water

(in a separate glass)
9 ounces of beer (beer of your choice, but do not use Stout Beers)

Mix all ingredients and knead for 10 mins. (add more beer if your dough is too dry during the kneading process)
Coat the finished dough ball with Extra virgin olive oil and place in zip lock bag. (One Gallon Size bag)
Place the bag in the Fridge for 24 hours.
Recipe makes enough for three 14" pizzas (Obviously, divide the large dough ball into three smaller dough balls after it rises for 24 hours )

Let the cold dough warm up a little bit to room temperature (or close to it). Then, I press the dough out by hand and cook them on a 14" pizza screen at 425 degrees for 15 minutes
(oven is a standard home oven with a heating element and be sure to preheat your oven)

[TomN]

Hello Meatballs (Ron),

When I went shopping for beers to use in my pizza dough, I purchased Samuel Adams brand because it is one that I can trust for good quality and flavor. However, I saw many different Octoberfest beers,  as we are near the season.

My question to you, my beer EXPERT friend: What make a beer to be considered as Octoberfest style?

Also, i noticed many beers from Germany that advertise Octoberfest as well. (which I expected since it is their holiday season)

Thank you once again.

TomN

[Chicago Bob]

Ron,
A friend of mine is just getting into home brewing and he asked me why I don't use brewer's yeast since I'm always talking about trying to get more flavor out of pizza dough. What are your thoughts on this please.

[TomN]

Hi Chicago Bob,

Ron will be the best to answer questions about brewer's yeast and beer.

However, IMO, beer is the way to go.  I really enjoy trying out all the different beers that are available to use in the dough making process. Each beer has it's own unique flavor and effect on the dough. To me it is more FUN using beer than using a brewer's yeast. (just my thoughts on the subject)


TomN