Author Topic: Using beer in your pizza dough  (Read 76642 times)

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Offline netdirector

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #320 on: December 27, 2012, 05:27:03 PM »
I'm a brand new member of this forum... and having browsed through multiple threads getting my feet wet with the whole pizza making science, I have to say Tom that your thread is my absolute favorite. Your pictures are mouth watering! And being a beer lover, I love seeing what you're trying!

Although, like several others, I can't believe you're using such high quality beers... to me it's akin to using a top-shelf tequila in a frozen margarita... yes, you could... but why??? Unless money is no object... but all that said, I love the thread and I'm going to try experimenting with your ratios this weekend using a few local micro brews I have sitting around...

I also have some kombucha I made... and I'm wondering what that might do, being another yeast based beverage...  ::)

Thanks for all your ideas! They're awesome!
“There's a pizza place near where I live that sells only slices. In the back you can see a guy tossing a triangle in the air.” - Steven Wright


Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #321 on: December 28, 2012, 01:23:55 AM »
Tom,
Each set of your pizza's keep getting better and better. I really liked that mushroom pie on the 15th and now this pepper strips an black olive pie looks real killer too. Have you ever tried any garlic powder along with your beer in a dough?
  Great work man!   :chef:
Bob

Bob,

I have never added garlic powder to the dough. I have added it to my sauce before.

Tomn

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #322 on: December 28, 2012, 01:27:27 AM »
Those pies look great Tom. Using beer in my dough is definitely on my experimentation list.

Pliney the Elder is 8% ABV and the Widmer Brrrbon is 9.4% ABV. As the alcohol gets higher do you have to compensate by adding more yeast? I would think that the alcohol would kill some of the yeast cells. Or is that not high enough?

I typically keep the yeast amount the same, but always do a cold rise for a minimum of 24 hours.  I have learned the hard way to make sure my yeast is fresh. Flat dough is a let down after all the dough preparation and expensive or hard to find beer.

Thanks for the reply.

TomN

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #323 on: December 29, 2012, 02:29:55 AM »
Harvest Limited Edition - J.W. Lees Brewery - Manchester, England

http://www.jwlees.co.uk/

Made more Pizza dough tonight to get ready for the weekend with friends. Found this beer in Total Wine & More. The beer expert said that this beer is very hard to find. (at least in my part of the country, WA. ) It comes in a 9.3 Fl OZ bottle (what we used to call  "pony size bottles") and it costs $9.99 for this little size. The alcohol volume is 11.5 percent.

Since my recipe calls for 9 ounces of beer, that leaves only .3 ounces to try the beer. It had a very sweet and flavorful taste. "Harvest" tasted like a double bock, but with a lot of character. Hard to describe, but very tasty. The bottle describes the beer as "Ale Matured in Sherry Casks". The bottle also states, "This fully fermented ale can be enjoyed now or laid down like a fine wine for enjoyment to come".

I too admit that this is one beer meant for drinking, but I had to use it in dough as my cooking experimenting continues. I am sure this will be great dough and I will follow up with photos later.

TomN

« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 02:50:13 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #324 on: December 29, 2012, 02:31:37 AM »
This is the second time that I have used the dough hook after I have kneaded the dough first in a bowl. The hook really makes the dough so smooth.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #325 on: December 29, 2012, 01:18:20 PM »
Tom,

Great thread.  Are you using the same dough formulation as you posted on page 2?

Nate
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Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #326 on: December 29, 2012, 01:49:19 PM »
Here is my most recent Recipe:

(Mix in a bowl)
4 cups Pendleton Power Flour
1 teaspoon salt
1 Tablespoon of Extra Virgin Olive oil (or a quick pour)

(Mix in a glass)
1 & 1/2 teaspoon Quick Rise Yeast
1/2 teaspoon of sugar
5 ounces warm water

(in a separate glass)
9 ounces of beer (beer of your choice, but do not use Stout Beers) (in My opinion)

Mix all ingredients and knead for 10 mins. I usually add the yeast mixture first and mix it in then the beer.  (add more beer if your dough is too dry during the kneading process)
Coat the finished dough ball with Extra virgin olive oil and place in zip lock freezer bag. (One Gallon Size bag) You can make 3 smaller dough balls and bag them,  but I usually do not have the fridge space to do this.
Place the plastic zip lock freezer bag in the Fridge for 24 hours.
Recipe makes enough for three 14" pizzas (Obviously, divide the large dough ball into three smaller dough balls after it rises for 24 hours )

Let the cold dough warm up a little bit. However, cooler dough makes the press out easier.  Then, I press the dough out by hand and cook them on a 14" pizza screen at 425 degrees for 15 minutes
(oven is a standard home oven with a heating element and be sure to preheat your oven)


I use Pendleton Power flour and recently I have been using a dough hook on my Kitchen Aid mixer. I still knead the dough into a ball and then transfer it to the mixer. As you make dough, you get to know the process better and better. You will be able to tell in the kneading process if you should have more or less hydration percentage (beer or water). If too sticky, add a little more flour. if too dry add a little more beer. It can change depending on the area of the country you live in, Sea Level, etc... Try to get good on your measurements but Don't get so upset about it as you learn the process. Remember, this is for home and you do not have a line of customers waiting either. Again, as you make dough more often, you get used to what needs to be done. Most of all and most importantly, HAVE FUN DOING IT.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 02:06:24 PM by TomN »

Offline pythonic

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #327 on: December 29, 2012, 02:16:11 PM »
Any idea what dough hydration you are using?
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #328 on: December 29, 2012, 02:54:19 PM »
Looks to be roughly 60%.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #329 on: December 29, 2012, 05:19:05 PM »
32 /5...6.4
That's about as deep as my math goes..... ;D
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Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #330 on: December 29, 2012, 09:28:39 PM »
60 percent Beer and 40 percent water.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #331 on: December 29, 2012, 10:11:31 PM »
4cups flour=aprox. 16oz.
14fl. oz water/beer weighs aprox. 14oz.

16oz flour and 14oz beer/water does not compute..... :)
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Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #332 on: December 30, 2012, 02:27:42 AM »
My total liquid, beer /water combination,  is approximately 60/40.  However, to state that it is  EXACTLY at 60/40 then it should be 8.4 oz of beer and 5.6 of water. Keep in mind your sea levels (as I am close to the pacific Ocean), dampness of your storage area, the wheat harvest of that year, etc...

What has been working for me is 9oz of beer and 5oz of warm water. It is easy to measure and more importantly it works.

Again, I am not trying to prove a formula of hydration ratios of liquid, flour, yeast ,and oil, I am just sharing what works in a home cooking environment at my house and enjoy great pizza.

Best to you in your pizza making adventures.

TomN
PS
Some beers that have a lot of foam, I take out the foam with a spoon to get the 9 oz measurement.

PS Again
Here is a link that discusses hydration in more detail

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f2/measuring-dough-hydration-15757.html
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 02:46:03 AM by TomN »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #333 on: December 30, 2012, 10:43:12 AM »
Tom,
I was addressing pythonic's hydration question and his saying it looks to be about 60%. The math works out to it being more closer to around 85% hydration.That's pretty wet and if it works for you that is great. A noob trying your recipe may have trouble handling that though.
Your pies look great! :chef:
Bob
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #334 on: December 30, 2012, 12:10:43 PM »
For those who contemplate trying some of Tom's beer dough recipes, there are several things they should be aware of.

First, the Power flour that Tom has been using has a rated absorption value of 65%. That is a couple percent higher than most competitive high-gluten flours. And, from reports I have read from other members who have used that flour for other dough recipes, they have been able to pretty much use a hydration value of around 64-65%. So, that flour can take quite a bit of water.

Second, beer is mostly water. For a basic non-light beer, it is around 92%. However, Tom has been using beers that may have less water than 92%. Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing the actual percent of water for the different beers he has been using. But, if Tom were to convert his volume recipes to weight formulations, it is possible that the formulations could vary from one to another based on the type of beer used. The variations might not be major but they may differ nonetheless and may affect the final hydration value (exclusive of the wetting effects of the oil).

Third, I believe Tom's work has been dedicated primarily to the home pizza maker and, for this reason, he has specified volumes rather than weights. However, if one wishes to convert his recipes to baker's percent format, for example, to make larger amounts of doughs for pizzas of different sizes, or to change values of ingredients, etc., they would need to know how much four cups of the Power flour weigh. If Tom has a decent digital scale, he should be able to weigh four cups of Power flour plus any bench flour that might be needed, and tell us what those numbers are. Alternatively, he would have to tell us exactly how he measures out his four cups of Power flour, and we would then have to cross our fingers that we are able to use the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ to convert his volume measurements to weights. The conversions of the rest of his volume measurements to weights, for example, for the salt, yeast, sugar and oil, would be a straightforward exercise.

Fourth, I seriously doubt that the hydration of the latest formulation posted by Tom is anywhere near 85%. To get an accurate number, we would need to know the weight of four cups of the Power flour and make a judgment on the amount of water in the particular beer Tom is using in any given instance. But just using the KASL flour as a proxy in the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator, I would estimate the hydration value for Tom's latest dough to be in the range of around 71-77% (depending on whether he measures out the flour Textbook style or using the Medium method). And those numbers do not take into account any bench flour that he might use.

I do not personally see that practitioners of Tom's beer dough recipes should have serious problems with those recipes. They may have to do some tweaking of the amount of flour and/or beer to get the desired coherency and other characteristics of the final dough, but I don't see that as an impediment to achieving good results. But the piece of information that I think would be most useful is the weight of the four cups of Power flour or, alternatively, a descripition of the method that Tom uses to measure out the flour. Either of those two pieces of information will help people get closer to what Tom does.

Peter

Edit: Corrected hydration range.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 04:30:42 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline pythonic

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #335 on: December 30, 2012, 12:52:39 PM »
I converted the cups of KABF i used to 23.2oz and divided all liquid 14 ounces into it and got roughly 60.3%.

Tom,
I was addressing pythonic's hydration question and his saying it looks to be about 60%. The math works out to it being more closer to around 85% hydration.That's pretty wet and if it works for you that is great. A noob trying your recipe may have trouble handling that though.
Your pies look great! :chef:
Bob
[/quote


« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 12:55:35 PM by pythonic »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #336 on: December 30, 2012, 02:01:03 PM »
Nate,

Can you tell me how you measured out four cups of KABF and got 23.2 ounces? King Arthur itself uses 4.25 ounces for a cup of KABF: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipe/master-weight-chart.html. That weight corresponds to the Textbook method of flour measurement.

Peter

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #337 on: December 30, 2012, 03:40:11 PM »
Peter,,

Your comments are awesome as always. Give me a few days and I will get the weight of the power flour, beer, etc... as i am going to purchase a digital scale. I would love to see your formula and how to break down my recipe. Thanks again.

TomN
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 03:41:53 PM by TomN »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #338 on: December 30, 2012, 04:02:31 PM »
Nate,

Can you tell me how you measured out four cups of KABF and got 23.2 ounces? King Arthur itself uses 4.25 ounces for a cup of KABF: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipe/master-weight-chart.html. That weight corresponds to the Textbook method of flour measurement.

Peter
That is the number I used when I came up with 85%.

4X4.25=17  17oz flour divided by 14oz beer/water   14/17=83%
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 04:24:24 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #339 on: December 30, 2012, 04:45:28 PM »
Bob,

I went back to check my numbers and saw that I misread the amount of water. I used 4 ounces of water rather than 5 ounces. I corrected my post to reflect the correct numbers. Once Tom provides the weight number for his Power flour, we will have a better idea as to the hydration of his dough. For my hydration range, I used KASL as a proxy for the Power flour and I assumed use of the Textbook and Medium methods of flour measurement.

Your math was correct but you did not account for the fact that beer is about 92% water, and maybe somewhat less for the types of beer that Tom has been using. It is the water content of the beer that, together with the added water, is used for the hydration calculation. It would be instructive to know what is typical in the way of water content for the heavier beers that Tom has been using.

Peter