Author Topic: Using beer in your pizza dough  (Read 124967 times)

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Offline pythonic

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #325 on: December 29, 2012, 01:18:20 PM »
Tom,

Great thread.  Are you using the same dough formulation as you posted on page 2?

Nate
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Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #326 on: December 29, 2012, 01:49:19 PM »
Here is my most recent Recipe:

(Mix in a bowl)
4 cups Pendleton Power Flour
1 teaspoon salt
1 Tablespoon of Extra Virgin Olive oil (or a quick pour)

(Mix in a glass)
1 & 1/2 teaspoon Quick Rise Yeast
1/2 teaspoon of sugar
5 ounces warm water

(in a separate glass)
9 ounces of beer (beer of your choice, but do not use Stout Beers) (in My opinion)

Mix all ingredients and knead for 10 mins. I usually add the yeast mixture first and mix it in then the beer.  (add more beer if your dough is too dry during the kneading process)
Coat the finished dough ball with Extra virgin olive oil and place in zip lock freezer bag. (One Gallon Size bag) You can make 3 smaller dough balls and bag them,  but I usually do not have the fridge space to do this.
Place the plastic zip lock freezer bag in the Fridge for 24 hours.
Recipe makes enough for three 14" pizzas (Obviously, divide the large dough ball into three smaller dough balls after it rises for 24 hours )

Let the cold dough warm up a little bit. However, cooler dough makes the press out easier.  Then, I press the dough out by hand and cook them on a 14" pizza screen at 425 degrees for 15 minutes
(oven is a standard home oven with a heating element and be sure to preheat your oven)


I use Pendleton Power flour and recently I have been using a dough hook on my Kitchen Aid mixer. I still knead the dough into a ball and then transfer it to the mixer. As you make dough, you get to know the process better and better. You will be able to tell in the kneading process if you should have more or less hydration percentage (beer or water). If too sticky, add a little more flour. if too dry add a little more beer. It can change depending on the area of the country you live in, Sea Level, etc... Try to get good on your measurements but Don't get so upset about it as you learn the process. Remember, this is for home and you do not have a line of customers waiting either. Again, as you make dough more often, you get used to what needs to be done. Most of all and most importantly, HAVE FUN DOING IT.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 02:06:24 PM by TomN »

Offline pythonic

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #327 on: December 29, 2012, 02:16:11 PM »
Any idea what dough hydration you are using?
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #328 on: December 29, 2012, 02:54:19 PM »
Looks to be roughly 60%.
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #329 on: December 29, 2012, 05:19:05 PM »
32 /5...6.4
That's about as deep as my math goes..... ;D
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Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #330 on: December 29, 2012, 09:28:39 PM »
60 percent Beer and 40 percent water.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #331 on: December 29, 2012, 10:11:31 PM »
4cups flour=aprox. 16oz.
14fl. oz water/beer weighs aprox. 14oz.

16oz flour and 14oz beer/water does not compute..... :)
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Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #332 on: December 30, 2012, 02:27:42 AM »
My total liquid, beer /water combination,  is approximately 60/40.  However, to state that it is  EXACTLY at 60/40 then it should be 8.4 oz of beer and 5.6 of water. Keep in mind your sea levels (as I am close to the pacific Ocean), dampness of your storage area, the wheat harvest of that year, etc...

What has been working for me is 9oz of beer and 5oz of warm water. It is easy to measure and more importantly it works.

Again, I am not trying to prove a formula of hydration ratios of liquid, flour, yeast ,and oil, I am just sharing what works in a home cooking environment at my house and enjoy great pizza.

Best to you in your pizza making adventures.

TomN
PS
Some beers that have a lot of foam, I take out the foam with a spoon to get the 9 oz measurement.

PS Again
Here is a link that discusses hydration in more detail

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f2/measuring-dough-hydration-15757.html
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 02:46:03 AM by TomN »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #333 on: December 30, 2012, 10:43:12 AM »
Tom,
I was addressing pythonic's hydration question and his saying it looks to be about 60%. The math works out to it being more closer to around 85% hydration.That's pretty wet and if it works for you that is great. A noob trying your recipe may have trouble handling that though.
Your pies look great! :chef:
Bob
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #334 on: December 30, 2012, 12:10:43 PM »
For those who contemplate trying some of Tom's beer dough recipes, there are several things they should be aware of.

First, the Power flour that Tom has been using has a rated absorption value of 65%. That is a couple percent higher than most competitive high-gluten flours. And, from reports I have read from other members who have used that flour for other dough recipes, they have been able to pretty much use a hydration value of around 64-65%. So, that flour can take quite a bit of water.

Second, beer is mostly water. For a basic non-light beer, it is around 92%. However, Tom has been using beers that may have less water than 92%. Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing the actual percent of water for the different beers he has been using. But, if Tom were to convert his volume recipes to weight formulations, it is possible that the formulations could vary from one to another based on the type of beer used. The variations might not be major but they may differ nonetheless and may affect the final hydration value (exclusive of the wetting effects of the oil).

Third, I believe Tom's work has been dedicated primarily to the home pizza maker and, for this reason, he has specified volumes rather than weights. However, if one wishes to convert his recipes to baker's percent format, for example, to make larger amounts of doughs for pizzas of different sizes, or to change values of ingredients, etc., they would need to know how much four cups of the Power flour weigh. If Tom has a decent digital scale, he should be able to weigh four cups of Power flour plus any bench flour that might be needed, and tell us what those numbers are. Alternatively, he would have to tell us exactly how he measures out his four cups of Power flour, and we would then have to cross our fingers that we are able to use the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ to convert his volume measurements to weights. The conversions of the rest of his volume measurements to weights, for example, for the salt, yeast, sugar and oil, would be a straightforward exercise.

Fourth, I seriously doubt that the hydration of the latest formulation posted by Tom is anywhere near 85%. To get an accurate number, we would need to know the weight of four cups of the Power flour and make a judgment on the amount of water in the particular beer Tom is using in any given instance. But just using the KASL flour as a proxy in the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator, I would estimate the hydration value for Tom's latest dough to be in the range of around 71-77% (depending on whether he measures out the flour Textbook style or using the Medium method). And those numbers do not take into account any bench flour that he might use.

I do not personally see that practitioners of Tom's beer dough recipes should have serious problems with those recipes. They may have to do some tweaking of the amount of flour and/or beer to get the desired coherency and other characteristics of the final dough, but I don't see that as an impediment to achieving good results. But the piece of information that I think would be most useful is the weight of the four cups of Power flour or, alternatively, a descripition of the method that Tom uses to measure out the flour. Either of those two pieces of information will help people get closer to what Tom does.

Peter

Edit: Corrected hydration range.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 04:30:42 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline pythonic

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #335 on: December 30, 2012, 12:52:39 PM »
I converted the cups of KABF i used to 23.2oz and divided all liquid 14 ounces into it and got roughly 60.3%.

Tom,
I was addressing pythonic's hydration question and his saying it looks to be about 60%. The math works out to it being more closer to around 85% hydration.That's pretty wet and if it works for you that is great. A noob trying your recipe may have trouble handling that though.
Your pies look great! :chef:
Bob
[/quote


« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 12:55:35 PM by pythonic »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #336 on: December 30, 2012, 02:01:03 PM »
Nate,

Can you tell me how you measured out four cups of KABF and got 23.2 ounces? King Arthur itself uses 4.25 ounces for a cup of KABF: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipe/master-weight-chart.html. That weight corresponds to the Textbook method of flour measurement.

Peter

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #337 on: December 30, 2012, 03:40:11 PM »
Peter,,

Your comments are awesome as always. Give me a few days and I will get the weight of the power flour, beer, etc... as i am going to purchase a digital scale. I would love to see your formula and how to break down my recipe. Thanks again.

TomN
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 03:41:53 PM by TomN »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #338 on: December 30, 2012, 04:02:31 PM »
Nate,

Can you tell me how you measured out four cups of KABF and got 23.2 ounces? King Arthur itself uses 4.25 ounces for a cup of KABF: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipe/master-weight-chart.html. That weight corresponds to the Textbook method of flour measurement.

Peter
That is the number I used when I came up with 85%.

4X4.25=17  17oz flour divided by 14oz beer/water   14/17=83%
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 04:24:24 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #339 on: December 30, 2012, 04:45:28 PM »
Bob,

I went back to check my numbers and saw that I misread the amount of water. I used 4 ounces of water rather than 5 ounces. I corrected my post to reflect the correct numbers. Once Tom provides the weight number for his Power flour, we will have a better idea as to the hydration of his dough. For my hydration range, I used KASL as a proxy for the Power flour and I assumed use of the Textbook and Medium methods of flour measurement.

Your math was correct but you did not account for the fact that beer is about 92% water, and maybe somewhat less for the types of beer that Tom has been using. It is the water content of the beer that, together with the added water, is used for the hydration calculation. It would be instructive to know what is typical in the way of water content for the heavier beers that Tom has been using.

Peter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #340 on: December 30, 2012, 05:00:15 PM »
Why wouldn't you include alcohol in the HR calc?
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #341 on: December 30, 2012, 05:05:56 PM »
Why wouldn't you include alcohol in the HR calc?

Craig,

I was just researching that question. I wondered whether the alcohol would have a wetting effect, much like oil does. I decided just to wait for Tom to give his flour weight number, especially since his doughs don't look to be excessively wet or hydrated.

Peter


Offline pythonic

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #342 on: December 30, 2012, 10:09:27 PM »
Nate,

Can you tell me how you measured out four cups of KABF and got 23.2 ounces? King Arthur itself uses 4.25 ounces for a cup of KABF: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipe/master-weight-chart.html. That weight corresponds to the Textbook method of flour measurement.

Peter

When I filled a cup just now it weighed approx. 5.3oz so 21.2oz putting it at 66% hydration.  For some reason it must have been 5.8oz last time I weighed.   I made this dough yesterday and by no means was it higher than 62% hydration. 
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 10:25:37 PM by pythonic »
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Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #343 on: January 06, 2013, 02:52:56 AM »
Not to take away from take away from the discussion on my recipe measured in a "Baker's Scale", but i need to do some catch up on my beer and dough. I will get a digital scale soon. As for the pizza made with Harvest Limited Edition - J.W. Lees Brewery - Manchester, England Beer, I thought it turned out very well. While it is a great beer, I do not see myself using it again any time soon,  due to the $9.99 and difficultly finding it. However, it was a fantastic beer that made great pizza dough, despite the small 9.3 oz bottle size.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 03:15:46 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #344 on: January 06, 2013, 02:53:43 AM »
I had a request from friends for BBQ chicken pizza. So that is what I made.

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #345 on: January 06, 2013, 02:56:31 AM »
The cheeses used were: Bella Rosano Whole Milk Mozzarella, Smoked Beechers Flagship Cheese, Gouda cheese, and a sprinkle of Stella Parmesan & Romano.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 03:00:56 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #346 on: January 06, 2013, 02:57:44 AM »
This cook up very nice. Remember, i am using my home oven at 425 degrees on a pizza Screen.

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #347 on: January 06, 2013, 03:08:58 AM »
Blue Moon Vintage Blonde Ale Reserve Collection 2012

With the Seattle Seahawks playing the Washington Redskins on Sunday, I need to have more pizza dough on hand. I picked up this beer that was in the reserve section. I have used Blue Moon Belgian White before, so i wanted to try another one of their beers. The fact that this contained Chardonnay juice in the brewing process caught my attention.

http://www.bluemoonbrewingcompany.com/OurBeers/Product/vintage-blonde-ale
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 03:37:08 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #348 on: January 06, 2013, 03:12:37 AM »
This beer has a sweeter taste than the regular Blue Moon Belgian White beer (not sweet like a double bock beer, but the Chardonnay juice taste comes though), which is great for my pizza dough. So far the dough has looked smooth and a great smell. I have put it in the fridge for the 24 hour cold rise process. Some of this dough will be used later in the week and will have more flavor development. However, I need some of the dough for the big game. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 03:22:31 AM by TomN »

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #349 on: January 06, 2013, 09:50:08 PM »
As the alcohol gets higher do you have to compensate by adding more yeast? I would think that the alcohol would kill some of the yeast cells. Or is that not high enough?

FWIW, Not sure about percentage alcohol in the liquid itself, but I just devoured a pizza made with 100% Red Hook ESB which turned out fantastic. I used ~3g of Fleischmann's Instant yeast mixed with the dry ingredients, threw in the beer and mixed the dough. This went directly into the refridgerator overnight. I saw very little activity in the dough until about the 12 hour mark, then just minimal puffiness until hour 16, when it was removed and laminated. I could tell the yeast was still alive, albeit struggling. I rely on the sheeting technique for volume, so I wasn't so concerned about their fate in the dough, but they were alive.