Author Topic: Using beer in your pizza dough  (Read 131572 times)

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Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #375 on: January 23, 2013, 11:59:15 PM »
Peter,

The bag of Pendelton POWER Flour is stored in a cooler place of my house and is kept tightly wrapped up in it's original bag.

I reach into the bag and scoop out a cup, which is leveled off with the edge of a knife so it is an even cup. You described this as a "heavy" cup. You are right since the cup of flour is not sifted or spooned in. That being said, my previous cup measurement weighed at 168 grams.  However, I tried a different way to full the measuring cup this time around for a practice run. I spooned it in slowly and then leveled the cup. This method measured at 140 grams per cup. There is a difference!!!  

As for my recipe, I usually always scoop out a cup from the bag which is the 168 grams per cup.. As i continue to make pizza dough, i will begin using the scale each time and record the results. Having used a scale for the first time, I can see why many Pizzeria recipes either use a 25lb or a 50lb bag of flour in their recipes (based upon their mixer). No need to measure since the producers of the flour state the bag weigh.

TomN
PS
based on the 168 grams and the liquids, can you figure out my hydration? Can you show your work as you use your hydration formula? I am sure others would like to see this as well. Thanks. (Please use the 168 grams per cup in your calculations)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 12:04:42 AM by TomN »


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #376 on: January 24, 2013, 01:01:41 AM »
This is starting to sound like another Aimless Ryan thread.... ;D
j/k...btw, he's coming here to business consult me next month.
Bob
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Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #377 on: January 24, 2013, 01:47:53 AM »
Sorry Bob,

I try to keep the focus on the use of different Beers in dough making and I gear it to the home users (Like Me). However, I was recently asked about my hydration level and did not have an answer.

TomN
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 11:26:50 AM by TomN »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #378 on: January 24, 2013, 10:37:56 AM »
based on the 168 grams and the liquids, can you figure out my hydration? Can you show your work as you use your hydration formula? I am sure others would like to see this as well. Thanks. (Please use the 168 grams per cup in your calculations)
Tom,

From a baker's percent standpoint, the dough formulation that you have been using is essentially the one as set forth below. In coming up with that formulation, I weighed out 9 fluid ounces of beer from a bottle of Shiner's beer. The weight for the 9 fluid ounces was 9.4444 ounces. For the water, I used a conversion of 8.12 ounces by weight for 8 fluid ounces of water. That is based on measurements that I have conducted in my own kitchen. To determine the amount of water in the beer, I used the generic data for a regular beer from NutritionData.Self.com at http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beverages/3827/2. On that basis, the percent of water is 90.33%. I also used the data on alcohol for 9 fluid ounces of beer and, on that basis, the percent of alcohol is 4%. Since the expanded dough calculating tool (at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html) does not have an entry for beer, I used another entry as a proxy because I wanted to show the percents of water and beer separately. For the Power flour, I used the 168 grams per cup, or 23.7037 ounces.

Based on all of the numbers given above, I arrived at a total dough batch weight of 39.14 ounces. For three dough balls, that would be 13.05 ounces, or roughly 13 ounces per dough ball. For a 14" pizza, the corresponding thickness factor is 13.05/(3.13159 x 7 x 7) = 0.08477. That corresponds fairly closely to a NY style crust thickness. If you decide at some time to make a different size pizza or to make a dough batch for more than three pizzas, you can use the above thickness factor value in the expanded dough calculating tool along with all of the baker's percents and other required entries.

Here is the dough formulation:

Pendleton Power Flour (100%):
Water (21.4893%):
IDY (0.67236%):
Salt (0.8306%):
Extra Virgin Olive Oil (2.009%):
Sugar (0.29663%):
Beer (39.844%):
Total (165.14189%):
672 g  |  23.7 oz | 1.48 lbs
144.41 g  |  5.09 oz | 0.32 lbs (5 fluid ounces)
4.52 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
5.58 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
13.5 g | 0.48 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp
1.99 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
267.75 g | 9.44 oz | 0.59 lbs (9 fluid ounces)
1109.75 g | 39.14 oz | 2.45 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Dough is for three 14" pizzas; the corresponding thickness factor = 0.08477; no bowl residue compensation

As you will note, if you add the percents of beer and water, you will get a nominal value of 61.33%. However, if we use only the water content of the beer and add that to the water that is otherwise used to make the dough, we get a total water content of (0.9033 x 9.44) + 5.09 = 13.6172 ounces. That is a "true" hydration value of 13.6172/23.7 = 57.46%. If we also assume that the alcohol in the beer has a "hydrating" effect on the flour (I don't know if that is true or not), then the "effective" hydration becomes [(0.9033 x 9.44) + 5.09 + (0.04 x 9.44)]/23.7 =  13.995/23.27 = 59.05%. 

Since you have been using many different beers that may have different weights for 9 fluid ounces, and possibly different water and alcohol contents, the numbers given above will differ somewhat. However, I don't think that the numbers will change materially in such a way as to affect your results. For your purposes, and since the expanded dough calculating tool does not have a beer entry, you might just use a hydration value in the tool of 61.33%, or simply 61% to use a round number. However, the actual hydration value will be closer to around 58-59%.

To show you how the dough formulation looks if we just use 61% hydration in the expanded doujgh calculating tool, we get this:

Pendleton Power Flour (100%):
Water + Beer (61%):
IDY (0.67236%):
Salt (0.8306%):
Extra Virgin Olive Oil (2.009%):
Sugar (0.29663%):
Total (164.80859%):
673.36 g  |  23.75 oz | 1.48 lbs
410.75 g  |  14.49 oz | 0.91 lbs (9 fluid ounces of beer and 5 fluid ounces of water)
4.53 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
5.59 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
13.53 g | 0.48 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.01 tsp | 1 tbsp
2 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
1109.75 g | 39.14 oz | 2.45 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Dough is for three 14" pizzas; the corresponding thickness factor = 0.08477; no bowl residue compensation

Peter

Offline JD

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #379 on: January 24, 2013, 02:06:33 PM »
Tom,

Have you tried a "tripel" such as by La Fin Du Monde by Unibroue? It's a very unique flavor that might go well in a pizza dough. It's certainly good with Pizza!

They don't offer it where I live now, or I'd have tried the experiment myself...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Fin_du_Monde_(beer)

 




Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #380 on: January 24, 2013, 06:28:08 PM »
Hi JD,

I have used Ommegang Tripel Perfection in my dough making. This beer is a Golden Tripel Ale that is brewed with spices. Ommegang gave the dough a nice sweet flavor. Thanks for the recommendation.
I will search out a few more tripel beers for future dough making.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17415.120.html

(Scroll down towards the bottom of the page on the above link.)

TomN
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 01:16:37 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #381 on: January 24, 2013, 06:30:39 PM »
Peter,

I just want to say THANK YOU for all the time you have taken do do the calculations and for the words of wisdom. Thanks Again.  :chef:

TomN

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #382 on: January 24, 2013, 06:38:58 PM »
Tom,

Happy to do it. I find that the numbers help me better understand what is happening. I also learn something at the same time.

I should also point out that your salt and sugar levels are on the low side. As a result, they may not have much impact on flavor. However, if you are happy with the results, there is no need to change anything.

Peter

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #383 on: January 24, 2013, 07:23:50 PM »
Peter,

What sugar and salt levels would you recommend to try? I would like to do some experimenting. Thanks

TomN


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #384 on: January 24, 2013, 07:48:23 PM »
What sugar and salt levels would you recommend to try? I would like to do some experimenting. Thanks
Tom,

A fairly typical amount of salt for a pizza dough such as yours is 1.75%. The sugar can vary all over the place, depending on whether you want more crust color or a more soft and tender crumb. Since most of the beers you have been using are fairly dark in color, I don't think you need more color from sugar. However, if you want a more soft and tender crumb, without adding a great deal of sweetness, you might try around 3% sugar to start, and go from there.

I didn't mention it earlier, but you might also be able to tolerate a bit more hydration since your Power flour has an above average absorption rate. If you decide to increase the hydration, you may want to do it as a separate experiment. The oil, at around 2%, also imparts a "wetting" effect to the dough, so you don't want to raise the hydration too much, maybe a percent or two to start. The increased hydration should help produce a somewhat more open and airy crumb, if that is something that you would like to achieve.

Peter

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #385 on: January 25, 2013, 01:24:42 AM »
Peter,

While we are on the subject of hydration, if i was to cook my dough recipe in a wood fire oven instead of my home oven, would I need a wetter dough? Does it matter?  

I ask because I know many Pizzeria friends that would let me try it. Some have electric ovens with the stone surface and others have the actual wood fire /gas ovens. I have always wanted to give it a try.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

TomN
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 03:42:41 AM by TomN »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #386 on: January 25, 2013, 10:11:55 AM »
While we are on the subject of hydration, if i was to cook my dough recipe in a wood fire oven instead of my home oven, would I need a wetter dough? Does it matter?  

I ask because I know many Pizzeria friends that would let me try it. Some have electric ovens with the stone surface and others have the actual wood fire /gas ovens. I have always wanted to give it a try.

Tom,

I don't have experience with commercial ovens but I believe that you should be able to bake your pizzas in them. I would just eliminate the sugar from the dough. Using a higher hydration value than you have been using should produce a more open and airy crust, especially if the oven temperature is higher than what you use at home. You might bring your pizza screen with you just in case you need to slip it under the pizzas if it looks like the bottoms are baking too fast and browning up too fast. Without the sugar, however, that may not be a real problem. Beer has carbohydrates but not in the form of sugar. Beer is essentially water, alcohol, carbohdrate and small amounts of protein, vitamins, and minerals.

If you decide to try out a commercial oven, I'm sure we would all be interested in the results you get, especially if you are able to compare one of the commercially baked pizzas with a corresponding one baked at home in your home oven.

Peter

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #387 on: January 28, 2013, 02:27:42 AM »
PALATE WRECKER - Hamilton's Ale IPA - Green Flash Brewing Company

This beer is a very heavy, full bodied, IPA with a darker amber color. It made very good pizza dough. The beer advocate gives it a 93.

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/2743/45175

« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 02:31:06 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #388 on: January 28, 2013, 02:30:14 AM »
I have started dividing my larger dough ball (made with 4 cups of POWER flour) into three smaller 12oz dough balls before the 24 hour cold rise. This is so much easier to work with this way.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 02:32:31 AM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #389 on: January 30, 2013, 02:36:49 AM »
Made an extra Sausage Pizza with the last of the dough that i made with PALATE WRECKER - Hamilton's Ale IPA - Green Flash Brewing Company.  This dough had a very nice texture and flavor. I would use this beer again, but it is very limited in my area of the country.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 12:31:50 PM by TomN »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #390 on: January 30, 2013, 01:54:04 PM »
I sure like the looks of your double sausage pie Tom. Would you mind detailing a bit about the meat. Did you pre-cook it? Thanks.
Bob
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Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #391 on: January 30, 2013, 06:41:58 PM »
Hi Bob,

Usually, I put the freshly cooked sausage on the pizza and cover it with the cheese. However, someone requested double sausage on the pizza, after I had the pizza already cooking in the oven. I cooked the sausage and put it on the pizza for the last 3 minutes of baking time. It baked up nicely and did not burn. I might try this again.

The sausage that I use is a Sweet Italian Sausage. I remove the skins from the links, then cook up the sausage. Less chewy taste and texture that way.


TomN


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #392 on: January 30, 2013, 09:45:48 PM »
Thanks Tom, good to see you aim to please...even on the fly!  :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #393 on: January 31, 2013, 02:43:43 PM »
Tom,

You can now stop all of your experiments with beer and take a beer and pizza short-cut with this product: http://www.mammamiapizzabeer.com/main.php  :-D.

Peter

Offline JD

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #394 on: January 31, 2013, 02:55:35 PM »
Tom,

You can now stop all of your experiments with beer and take a beer and pizza short-cut with this product: http://www.mammamiapizzabeer.com/main.php  :-D.

Peter

 :o Now I've seen it all

Of course beer advocate gives it a 64... bunch of beer snobs who hate pizza I'd say
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/16836/41127

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #395 on: January 31, 2013, 03:42:38 PM »
Well, I guess we can all just pack up an go home now.  ???
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline TomN

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #396 on: February 01, 2013, 01:29:43 AM »
LOL,  :-D  looks like a lot of fun. Thanks for the posting. However, i have ten different beers lined up in my fridge for experimentation.  ;D

Offline SquirrelFlight

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #397 on: February 01, 2013, 11:27:16 AM »
I had one of those a few years back.  Mediocre beer, at best, but an interesting experience all the same.  I'm not sure I'd buy another - I prefer biting into pizza....

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #398 on: February 01, 2013, 12:20:53 PM »
Tom,

I thought that you might be interested in the beer dough formulation that John Correll has in his Encyclopizza book, at http://web.archive.org/web/20040623200337/http://www.correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/05_Dough-making/16_dough_recipe.htm.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Using beer in your pizza dough
« Reply #399 on: February 01, 2013, 12:43:29 PM »
Tom,

It is also possible to use beer in a pizza sauce. See, for example, http://web.archive.org/web/20040610190934/http://correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/08_Sauce/11_sauce_recipe.htm.

Peter