Author Topic: NY Style?  (Read 8314 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #100 on: February 15, 2012, 08:10:06 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #101 on: February 15, 2012, 08:11:13 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #102 on: February 15, 2012, 08:12:36 AM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #103 on: February 15, 2012, 08:13:53 AM »
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Offline scott123

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #104 on: February 15, 2012, 09:30:07 AM »
The resulting pizza was the same in every way as using bromated flour.

Really?  ;D

Offline scott123

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #105 on: February 15, 2012, 09:30:24 AM »
Obviously, crust cross sections depend a great deal on where the cut occurs, so it's not entirely fair to put one next to the other, but, even taking that into account, the gigantic appears to have better oven spring.

Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #106 on: February 15, 2012, 10:09:37 AM »
Scott,

If I would have taken more pictures of the rim of the slice cuts, it could have been seen that even when using KASL there was about the same amount of oven spring.  I was busy when I took those pictures and Steve was only over at market for a little bit of time yesterday, so I didn’t have the time to take more rim shots, or a video of using a pizza cutter for that pie made with KASL.  If you want me to next week I will take more crumb shots using KASL and also a video of slicing the pie with a pizza cutter.  I might be making a five dough ball batch in my Hobart to try out for next week.  I am just not sure about the amount of IDY I want to use.

I also used my big pizza knife to cut this pie, not a pizza cutter. That can flatten the rim too.

Norma
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 10:12:13 AM by norma427 »
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Offline scott123

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #107 on: February 15, 2012, 05:12:54 PM »
Alright Norma, if you do happen to make this pie again, please do take some crumb shots.

And, don't get me wrong, the KASL makes an equally beautiful pizza- my recommendation to sell this still stands, regardless of the flour you go with. Although I do think the Gigantic is a tiny bit better  >:D Even if the results are identical, isn't the Gigantic considerably cheaper?

I think, with enough experimentation, you could probably recreate this pizza with a 2 day fermentation, but with your access to the market, that really isn't logistically feasible anyway. Replicating these results with a 3 or a 4 day dough... I'm not going to say it isn't possible, but I wouldn't want to have to do it.

I can sort of see how you might view a pre-ferment and/or a 3+ day ferment as being something 'special,' something that adds an extra layer of flavor/value and sets you aside from the rest. I have to be honest, I'm a pretty big 2+ day fan myself, and it would take me some time to get used to the idea of selling a 24 hour dough. When you look at the enormous number of pizzerias doing same day doughs, though, 24 hours is pretty special. I say, if it works, don't fix it- and that 24 hour recipe works in a very big way. Photos don't normally convey flavor, but I know from my own experience eating pizza, that I wouldn't take a bite of that slice and say "it's good but could use a day or two longer fermentation"- nor would the other experienced pizza eaters in this thread.

Most of us, at this point, can look at a photo of a pizza and know what it'll taste like.  And that pizza, imo, tastes like a million bucks.

Offline hockman4357

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #108 on: February 15, 2012, 05:48:05 PM »
I used exactly the same formulation as last week to make this pizza, only less of a mix time was used.  The resulting pizza today, had a moister rim, and wasn’t exactly the same as last week.  My taste testers, Steve, and I enjoyed this pizza better than last weeks pizza.

This is a video of Steve cutting the pie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOqoHnqf8Fw

Norma


Norma, are you using the dough hook attachment to mix the dough or the paddle attachment?  Oops!  I found the answer......dough hook!  The pizza really looks good, Norma!!!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 05:53:18 PM by hockman4357 »

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #109 on: February 15, 2012, 05:57:53 PM »
Norma

Are you still using the Con Agra occident flour. That's bromated, 12.4% protein and a dream to mix and work with. I know you were experimenting with it at one time, has it fallen out of your favor?

Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #110 on: February 15, 2012, 06:48:32 PM »
Alright Norma, if you do happen to make this pie again, please do take some crumb shots.

And, don't get me wrong, the KASL makes an equally beautiful pizza- my recommendation to sell this still stands, regardless of the flour you go with. Although I do think the Gigantic is a tiny bit better  >:D Even if the results are identical, isn't the Gigantic considerably cheaper?

I think, with enough experimentation, you could probably recreate this pizza with a 2 day fermentation, but with your access to the market, that really isn't logistically feasible anyway. Replicating these results with a 3 or a 4 day dough... I'm not going to say it isn't possible, but I wouldn't want to have to do it.

I can sort of see how you might view a pre-ferment and/or a 3+ day ferment as being something 'special,' something that adds an extra layer of flavor/value and sets you aside from the rest. I have to be honest, I'm a pretty big 2+ day fan myself, and it would take me some time to get used to the idea of selling a 24 hour dough. When you look at the enormous number of pizzerias doing same day doughs, though, 24 hours is pretty special. I say, if it works, don't fix it- and that 24 hour recipe works in a very big way. Photos don't normally convey flavor, but I know from my own experience eating pizza, that I wouldn't take a bite of that slice and say "it's good but could use a day or two longer fermentation"- nor would the other experienced pizza eaters in this thread.

Most of us, at this point, can look at a photo of a pizza and know what it'll taste like.  And that pizza, imo, tastes like a million bucks.

Scott, I do plan on making this pizza again.  I want to make a 5 dough ball batch this coming Friday if time permits and nothing goes wrong at market.  Last Friday when I went to market to start my preferment and clean-up a water main was broken at market, so I had to drag water to be able to clean-up. 

I will take more pictures this coming week of the crumb shots and also get Steve to take a video of cutting the pizza.  The ADM Gigantic is almost 10.00 a 50 lb. bag cheaper than KASL, but I am the one that has to work with the flour all the time when mixing and also on market day when the bench flour flies around.  Until the end of the day flour is all over my clothes and apron. The reason I would rather use KASL is because I don’t mind playing around with bromated flours in experiments, but I am the one that has to work with it all the time at market and don’t really trust it.   

I would like to be able to do a 2-4 days cold ferment, but as you already know a 2 day cold ferment isn’t possible for me and I really don’t think a four day ferment would work much better either.  If I did a four day cold ferment then I also would need to keep my pizza prep fridge turned on to store dough balls. 

The only thing I worry about if I would use this formulation is how customers that now like some poofy rims or artisan looking pizzas would view the this other kind of NY style.  The more I try this formulation the more I like it though.  The next test would be to see how customers like this formulation and final pizzas and see it also does well in making my other products from pizza dough.  I also have to see how the pizzas will hold up in the heating cabinet. 

Thanks for saying the pizza in this thread tastes like a million bucks.  ;D I wish you could taste it.  I appreciate your help.  :)

Thanks!

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #111 on: February 15, 2012, 06:49:55 PM »
Norma, are you using the dough hook attachment to mix the dough or the paddle attachment?  Oops!  I found the answer......dough hook!  The pizza really looks good, Norma!!!

hockman4357,

Thanks so much for you kind comment.  :) If you need any help in this thread, let me know.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #112 on: February 15, 2012, 06:51:26 PM »
Norma

Are you still using the Con Agra occident flour. That's bromated, 12.4% protein and a dream to mix and work with. I know you were experimenting with it at one time, has it fallen out of your favor?

Dave,

I still have some of the Con Agra occident flour, but haven't tried it for awhile.  I will have to try it again in another formulation.  I did like the occident flour  :).

Norma
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Offline scott123

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #113 on: February 16, 2012, 05:23:49 PM »
The ADM Gigantic is almost 10.00 a 50 lb. bag cheaper than KASL, but I am the one that has to work with the flour all the time when mixing and also on market day when the bench flour flies around.  Until the end of the day flour is all over my clothes and apron. The reason I would rather use KASL is because I don’t mind playing around with bromated flours in experiments, but I am the one that has to work with it all the time at market and don’t really trust it.

Norma, from everything that I've read, breathing in flour, regardless of whether it's bromated or unbromated, is bad for your lungs. Just because it's KASL doesn't make it any safer to inhale. If you're concerned about flour inhalation (and, imo, anyone that works with flour on a commercial level should be), then you should really think about wearing a filtration mask- at least for the time that you're making the dough/making the dough balls.  As far as the bench flour used for stretching... well, a mask for that probably isn't feasible, but if you are truly concerned about inhaling bromated flour, you can always use bromated flour for the dough (using a mask) and use unbromated flour for the bench.  Bromate doesn't offer any advantage to bench flour. At home, since my bromated flour is in big buckets and a bit unwieldy, I use small bags of unbromated all purpose for stretching.

Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #114 on: February 16, 2012, 07:02:12 PM »
Norma, from everything that I've read, breathing in flour, regardless of whether it's bromated or unbromated, is bad for your lungs. Just because it's KASL doesn't make it any safer to inhale. If you're concerned about flour inhalation (and, imo, anyone that works with flour on a commercial level should be), then you should really think about wearing a filtration mask- at least for the time that you're making the dough/making the dough balls.  As far as the bench flour used for stretching... well, a mask for that probably isn't feasible, but if you are truly concerned about inhaling bromated flour, you can always use bromated flour for the dough (using a mask) and use unbromated flour for the bench.  Bromate doesn't offer any advantage to bench flour. At home, since my bromated flour is in big buckets and a bit unwieldy, I use small bags of unbromated all purpose for stretching.

Scott,

I really don’t think I am going to start wearing a filtration mask when I am mixing the dough or opening dough balls for pizzas, but I appreciate you telling me that both flours are bad to inhale. 

I can understand bromated flour doesn’t offer any advantages as a bench flour.  I don’t use bench flour on my wooden peels, but do use rice flour.

Thanks for telling me you use all purpose for stretching.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #115 on: February 19, 2012, 11:49:19 AM »
I scanned the print out from the Expanded Dough Calculation Tool for the 6 dough balls I am going to mix tomorrow with KASL at market in the Hobart mixer.  I changed the TF a little and also added a more salt in the formulation. 

If I have time this week I am going to purchase some bromated All Trumps to try next week in this same formulation and also for a couple more of my experiments.

If anyone wants me to take pictures of how the dough looks tomorrow after it is mixed, let me know and I will take some pictures.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #116 on: February 20, 2012, 06:53:23 PM »
Well, here goes 6 dough balls for the experiment tomorrow with KASL in the formulation.  I am not sure about the IDY amount for a one day cold ferment, but that can always be changed if everything else works out okay.

This was the dough that was mixed for 6 minutes in the Hobart.  The dough balls were put into 3 plastic containers and 3 plastic bags.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #117 on: February 20, 2012, 06:54:01 PM »
Norma
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Offline aptfive

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #118 on: February 20, 2012, 08:45:58 PM »
...premo Norma ...wonderful pie =)

Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #119 on: February 20, 2012, 08:58:29 PM »
...premo Norma ...wonderful pie =)

aptfive,

Thanks for you nice comments!  :) I still have some experimenting to do with the formulation and final pizzas to see if they will sell at market.

Norma


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