Author Topic: NY Style?  (Read 15635 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2012, 12:13:20 PM »
Norma that is a phenomenal looking pie. I love the look of the cheese.
Sean

Sean,

Thanks for your kind comment!  :) I used my regular blend of 2 mozzarellas for that pie.  The mozzarellas were 50/50 Foremost Farms/1950 brand part-skim mozzarella and Bella Fran whole milk mozzarella.

Norma


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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2012, 09:38:58 PM »
Great looking pie Norma :)!

I agree with Scott that many folks seem to think that an NYC pie is an NYC pie. A weak specimen and a very good one can indeed look very similar :/. To me, baking directly on the deck (no screen) with a dough made with some oil, sugar and cake yeast (and water of course) mixed with All Trumps (or similar bromated high protein flour), mixed thoroughly in a Hobart and hand stretched is mostly what makes the style. The execution of this and the quality of the ingredients and components is what makes the diff. It is about the love and pride put into the pie/s.

Here is a pic of a Brooklyn-thin crust pie that is very good and meets the style guidelines I mentioned above:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-IABKlj95nXg/Tuf6Y8ZrWTI/AAAAAAAAACQ/jcxK9XfaOPM/s1600/466841509.jpg

It does indeed look similar to many a NYC style pie, but there is no question that beyond the NYC area there are few places that really execute this style well. I share the pic with you as a reference. The undercrust of the my Lo Duca slice (the pic) looked remarkably similar to yours (baked at 500 in a Baker's pride with only a bottom brick).

As far as the oil, there is a fair amount in real NYC style dough but I would probably go a little lower -- maybe 3.5% or so. I would also stretch the pie a touch thinner, though not too thin. NYC style is thin but ultra thin versions are not the norm. Not too thick either though.

Not having had your other pizzas (or this one for that matter) I can't say if I think this would be more successful, but if you can consistenly make a pie that is as good as this one it might be worth it to have it as an alternate and see if people are receptive to it -- perhaps customers you know are a little adventurous or really like NYC style. People may very well like and or prefer it.

Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2012, 10:50:17 PM »
Great looking pie Norma :)!

I agree with Scott that many folks seem to think that an NYC pie is an NYC pie. A weak specimen and a very good one can indeed look very similar :/. To me, baking directly on the deck (no screen) with a dough made with some oil, sugar and cake yeast (and water of course) mixed with All Trumps (or similar bromated high protein flour), mixed thoroughly in a Hobart and hand stretched is mostly what makes the style. The execution of this and the quality of the ingredients and components is what makes the diff. It is about the love and pride put into the pie/s.

Here is a pic of a Brooklyn-thin crust pie that is very good and meets the style guidelines I mentioned above:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-IABKlj95nXg/Tuf6Y8ZrWTI/AAAAAAAAACQ/jcxK9XfaOPM/s1600/466841509.jpg

It does indeed look similar to many a NYC style pie, but there is no question that beyond the NYC area there are few places that really execute this style well. I share the pic with you as a reference. The undercrust of the my Lo Duca slice (the pic) looked remarkably similar to yours (baked at 500 in a Baker's pride with only a bottom brick).

As far as the oil, there is a fair amount in real NYC style dough but I would probably go a little lower -- maybe 3.5% or so. I would also stretch the pie a touch thinner, though not too thin. NYC style is thin but ultra thin versions are not the norm. Not too thick either though.

Not having had your other pizzas (or this one for that matter) I can't say if I think this would be more successful, but if you can consistenly make a pie that is as good as this one it might be worth it to have it as an alternate and see if people are receptive to it -- perhaps customers you know are a little adventurous or really like NYC style. People may very well like and or prefer it.

johnnydoubleu,

I agree, many people seem to think a NYC pie is an NYC pie and they can look very similar.

Good to hear the undercrust of your Lo Duca slice undercrust looked remarkably similar to mine.  The slice you linked to looks beautiful!  :) You say that slice or pizza was only baked at 500 degrees F?  Do you know how long the bake was?  I am always wondering about what temperature and amount of time produces the best bake in my Baker’s Pride deck oven.

I appreciate you telling me that maybe 3.5% oil might be a better choice.  I might try that next week.  I am trying to see if I can reproduced the same pie this week as I did last week with the same ingredients.

I will have to wait and see what happens.  If customers do seem receptive to a real NY pie, I will try to make them.

Thanks for your help!  :)

Norma

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2012, 11:29:57 PM »
Norma,

The Lo Duca brothers are good friends of mine so I have a level of access that I wouldn't otherwise. You may recall (I mentioned on Slice) I get to bake in their ovens if I wish which is pretty cool (done a "00" square actually, which was fun).

My guesstimate of 500 is because the deck doors get open quite a bit. I really wish I had an IR thermometer gun. They tend not to crank their oven all the way -- somewhat shy of it.

I will stop in and try to get a better handle times and temps so that we can be more exact. I generally don't get too specific with my questions out of respect but I am sure 99% of what I would ask they would be happy to answer. They are good dudes and they respect my passion for pizza as well.

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2012, 11:53:27 PM »
Norma,

I should also add that I think if you mix/ed less (and oxidize the dough less -- I'll try to find a ballpark for the mix time for the slice I linked to) and use a slightly lower temp you'll probably get better color on the top of the crust. The coal oven NYC places (Lombardi's, Totonno's, Grimaldi's) leave people with the impression that one should try to achieve something similar (charring etc.) in a gas deck. Personally I prefer a slightly lower temp bake that is less acrid and I think most consumers outside of coal oven/WFO pizza nazis also prefer a more golden pie as opposed to a pale one with charring -- otherwise the bigger chains would attempt to make this kind of pie. Joe Average, IMO, is unlikely to prefer a charred acrid pie. Anyway, point is that cranking the oven is not always a silver arrow so to speak. What some people think adds character to a pie, many think has off flavors.

(It's funny) The pizzas that pizza snobs tend to revere, IMO, are not the type of pies that the greatest number of people would be receptive to. Just like most people (Americans) don't often eat foie gras donuts, raw fish or ramps. What gets food writers (that have to cover this stuff endlessly) excited and resonates with them is often very different than what resonates with the general public. My point here is that what the pizzarati like and laud and put on top ten lists, is not always what regular folks expect in pizza. Not saying any of this is good or bad or anything -- it is what it is.

Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2012, 07:40:07 AM »
Norma,

The Lo Duca brothers are good friends of mine so I have a level of access that I wouldn't otherwise. You may recall (I mentioned on Slice) I get to bake in their ovens if I wish which is pretty cool (done a "00" square actually, which was fun).

My guesstimate of 500 is because the deck doors get open quite a bit. I really wish I had an IR thermometer gun. They tend not to crank their oven all the way -- somewhat shy of it.

I will stop in and try to get a better handle times and temps so that we can be more exact. I generally don't get too specific with my questions out of respect but I am sure 99% of what I would ask they would be happy to answer. They are good dudes and they respect my passion for pizza as well.

Norma,

I should also add that I think if you mix/ed less (and oxidize the dough less -- I'll try to find a ballpark for the mix time for the slice I linked to) and use a slightly lower temp you'll probably get better color on the top of the crust. The coal oven NYC places (Lombardi's, Totonno's, Grimaldi's) leave people with the impression that one should try to achieve something similar (charring etc.) in a gas deck. Personally I prefer a slightly lower temp bake that is less acrid and I think most consumers outside of coal oven/WFO pizza nazis also prefer a more golden pie as opposed to a pale one with charring -- otherwise the bigger chains would attempt to make this kind of pie. Joe Average, IMO, is unlikely to prefer a charred acrid pie. Anyway, point is that cranking the oven is not always a silver arrow so to speak. What some people think adds character to a pie, many think has off flavors.

(It's funny) The pizzas that pizza snobs tend to revere, IMO, are not the type of pies that the greatest number of people would be receptive to. Just like most people (Americans) don't often eat foie gras donuts, raw fish or ramps. What gets food writers (that have to cover this stuff endlessly) excited and resonates with them is often very different than what resonates with the general public. My point here is that what the pizzarati like and laud and put on top ten lists, is not always what regular folks expect in pizza. Not saying any of this is good or bad or anything -- it is what it is.

Johnnydoubleu,

Thanks for posting that the Lo Duca brothers are good friends of yours.  I can understand you do have a level of access that you wouldn’t otherwise.  I forgot you mentioned on Slice that you did get to bake in their oven.  That is cool!  8)

Interesting that you guesstimate around 500 for their deck ovens, because the deck doors do get open quite a bit.  I have asked different slice joints in NY what temperatures their deck ovens bake their pizza at and usually they have told me around 525 degrees F.  I guess the deck temperatures do fall when the deck doors are opened quite a lot.  I have even seen that at MM in Washington, DC.  They weren’t baking NY style pies, but their ovens take quite a while to bake one pie.  When I visited MM in DC they weren’t really busy either.  I am almost positive that each deck oven bakes differently too.  My small double deck Baker’s Pride GP-61 countertop oven varies widely if temperatures are taken on different part of the deck.  In the center of the deck the temperatures are lower, but along the sides of the deck they can be 50 degrees or more higher in temperature.  I guess since the heat rises along the sides of my deck oven, that is why the sides of the deck are higher.  I am still trying to figure that out, where is the best spot to slide my pies onto and where to slide them during the bake, when rotating.

I can understand you don’t want to be too specific with your questions to the Lo Duca brothers.  It would be interesting to find out what they think their deck oven temperatures are across the deck though if you wouldn’t be giving out too much information about their temperatures.

I only mixed the first experiment longer to see what would happen.  I know I probably over oxidized the dough.  I am just trying to find out though experiments how much mix times different doughs can handle.  I thought since the first experiment had so much oil, maybe I would needed a longer mix time, but know that probably isn’t true.  I like to push things to the limit to see what happens. When I mix the dough this morning for the next experiment, it will be for a shorter mix time.  If I ever get consistent results with these experiments it would be interesting to mix a bigger batch in the Hobart instead of my Kitchen Aid mixer.  They both operate about the same, but my Kitchen Aid does takes longer to make the dough look about the same.

For awhile I did have my deck oven temperatures higher and found out most customers don’t like char on the bottom of pies.  They think they are burnt. Most of my customers never even heard of WFO’s, or have eaten Neapolitan pies, or any pies baked in a coal fired oven. I have only really tasted pies baked in a WFO for the first time a little over a year ago.  I do enjoy them very much, but they are a whole different kind of pizza than a NY style.  I know most regular people would prefer NY style pizzas and know most of the pizzas that are made are more like NY style pizzas even if they aren’t that good.  Just around the small area where I live, there are many NY style pizzerias.  I have tasted many and most of the owners are Italian, but for some reason the crusts have no flavor or taste like cardboard.  I don’t know if they never learned what doing different things can happen with different doughs, but they seem to stay the same in making their doughs.  Maybe that is the way they learned.  They use things like Grande cheese and top tomato products on their pies, but their crusts are surely lacking in flavor.  

This is a serious pizza making forum and out of all the great pies members produce here, they are nothing like what is available to the public, at least not in many areas.  WFO pies are another breed and the attention to detail that members here on the forum give to their pies is amazing.  Probably if the general public looked at those pies without knowing what they might taste like, they probably would prefer regular NY slice pizzas.  This forum has evaluated my knowledge about what can be done to produce better pies.  Pizzas I thought were good before I became a member of this forum, now sure don’t compare.  I agree Joe Average is likely to prefer a golden pie over a charred pie.

Two times recently I was in NY and tried Best Pizza in Brooklyn.  Their pies in my opinion are very good, but then they also bake in an old converted coal fired oven that is now a wood fired oven.  I know I wouldn’t be able to make the same pizza in my deck oven.  


Norma
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 07:42:08 AM by norma427 »

Offline franko9752

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2012, 08:34:04 AM »
I know what you mean about the customers thinking the pie is burnt . I got a BP P22BL deck oven a couple of years ago, as a hobby but recently got a pizza gig at the local bar and since i was opening the doors alot i figured i should crank it up to 550 or 600 deg. but the bottoms were getting a little burnt. I called Bakers Pride and told them what i was doing and the tech said don't turn it up, when the light comes on it just means that the juice is on for warming but the temp should be ok. I found that 475 or 500 does ok but still have to tend and turn the pie and checking the bottom often...Learning much by cooking for other people(customers).

Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2012, 08:52:20 AM »
I know what you mean about the customers thinking the pie is burnt . I got a BP P22BL deck oven a couple of years ago, as a hobby but recently got a pizza gig at the local bar and since i was opening the doors alot i figured i should crank it up to 550 or 600 deg. but the bottoms were getting a little burnt. I called Bakers Pride and told them what i was doing and the tech said don't turn it up, when the light comes on it just means that the juice is on for warming but the temp should be ok. I found that 475 or 500 does ok but still have to tend and turn the pie and checking the bottom often...Learning much by cooking for other people(customers).

Franko,

Thanks for posting about your learning experiences too with what customers really like and also about your Baker Pride deck oven.  :) Glad you are also learning what customers like and how you are going about using different oven temperatures. What kind of NY style formulation do you use and what are your mix times, if you don‘t mind me asking?

I am still trying to find the “sweet spot” that gives good oven spring, with a decent amount of moisture in the crumb, and good bottom crust browning.  That isn’t for these experiments with the NY style pie, but for other pies on the preferment Lehmann dough thread.  I still have a lot to learn about deck ovens and different formulations and how they work together.

Norma

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2012, 10:28:32 AM »
Norma,

I have been lurking around here for about 2 years. I (very much) realize how different most of the pies on the forum are from commercial ones and that the folks around here are incredibly passionate. That really has nothing to do with what I was trying to communicate...I know that great homemade pizza is made with ingredients (often expensive or rare) and time that are hard to come by in a commercial setting.

Best Pizza -- incredible pizza. They were lucky to find that oven and they clearly have a passion for pizza, no question. What I was trying to get at is that just as all NYC pies are not equal even though they may look similar, the "char" at Best can be pleasing while the "char" at Di Fara is often a full on burn (burnt olive oil -- yuck). Yes, they both have char but not an equivalent char. What am I getting at? Char is not instrinsically a desirable thing -- it depends on the type of char and they type of customer. There is an idea in the heads of some of the bigger pizza blogging folks that char almost automatically makes a pizza better and I believe these folks are wearing rose tinted glasses. There is also a subjective aspect beyond the black and white (is it "burned" or not?) of preference as well. Basically people that assert that char is always desirable and adds character are saying to all those that don't like that taste that they are wrong and that they don't know what NYC pizza is. Clearly I disagree with that.

Ultimately, what I am trying to get at is that cranking the oven is not a silver bullet to make better pizza but just a choice that may or may not suit particular circumstances. That's all. I think you understand -- I am just venting a bit.

As far as "card board crust" -- I find these tend to be doughs that are made same day/short ferments and are often cooked on a screen. The NYC style operators that employ longer ferments (with tasty cake yeast) and bake directly on the deck tend to taste pretty good.

Finally, I have been to Forcella, Keste, Motorino etc. and find a "good" Neapolitan pizza to be quite one dimensional -- mostly tasting of salt. To be fair though, I like doughs made with wild starters as they do have a lot more flavor so I am a tough critic. I would take 2 slices of Lo Duca over Keste all day long -- on taste -- let alone cost. Just because something is done in some antique way doesn't make it taste better. I get tired of people falling all over each other to repeat another's view that Neapolitan pizza is the be-all-end-all to pizza. It's wet. It's very salty. It's expensive. It's not for everyone and certainly not for everyday.

Anywho...can you tell I have a strong opinion on this ;)?


Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2012, 11:04:35 AM »
Johnnydoubleu,

I enjoy your comments and opinions.  :) I know not all NYC pies aren’t equal.  I understand what you are talking about when you say all chars aren’t equal and not desirable in some pies.

I have a appreciation for good Neapolitan pies, NY style great pies, Greek style, Pizzarium and also many other styles of pizza.  Maybe since I am not focused on one style as much as you are, I don’t even know the true beauty of a really good NY style pizza.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2012, 11:06:18 AM »
The same formulation mixed 7 minutes after all the ingredients were incorporated in the Kitchen Aid mixer.

Norma

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2012, 11:25:31 AM »
Norma,

(Just for the sake of clarity) I am not really an NYC-style thin crust purist. I have made plenty of square pies ( http://slice.seriouseats.com/images/20110228mpmjohnwozniak.jpg ) /pies not unlike the Bonci pies. In fact, I am making a dough today for a square I will make tomorrow night likely. I also regularly make Greek-style (pan) pies -- they were my fav growing up actually (a bit north of NYC). Oh, and the pizza pic in my profile is a Neapolitan pizza that I made in a friends backyard WFO for a tasting that Paulie attended. My Neo pie was devoured  so quickly it vanished almost as soon as I served it. However my Neapolitan "style" pie was made with wild starter and fermented for 2 days. It has everything going for it that a Forcella pies does and more because of the starter. Point is I don't have anything against the Neapolitan style per se -- I just find that in practice, when sold at retail, they are pretty one dimensional (and can be quite salty). Neapolitan pies can be great though.
 
I am passionate about myth busting though and I feel bad for all the people that think that Di Fara is the best pizza. What I take issue with is that many read a magazine or regarded blog and sort of import those opinions verbatim -- well Slice said it was the best ever so it must be. I try very hard to not judge pizza I haven't had. Since I haven't had every pizza in Brooklyn and NYC, nor has anyone, how could they accurately assert Di Fara to be "the best"? To me it just makes folks look foolish. Living a 15 minute walk from Di Fara and having had it now many times, I actually have a point of comparison.

That said, I am almost 40 now and I have no doubt that as one gets older their need to assert something as the best pizza, guitar player, country, whatever, wanes. I used to care what I thought was the best -- now I realize there is no such thing. Hard to explain that to a 25 year old though.

Anywho...back to the dough :) -- your latest dough ball looks great!

EDIT: I added a bit about Neo pies.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 11:57:01 AM by johnnydoubleu »

Offline franko9752

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2012, 11:43:40 AM »
Franko,

Thanks for posting about your learning experiences too with what customers really like and also about your Baker Pride deck oven.  :) Glad you are also learning what customers like and how you are going about using different oven temperatures. What kind of NY style formulation do you use and what are your mix times, if you don‘t mind me asking?

I am still trying to find the “sweet spot” that gives good oven spring, with a decent amount of moisture in the crumb, and good bottom crust browning.  That isn’t for these experiments with the NY style pie, but for other pies on the preferment Lehmann dough thread.  I still have a lot to learn about deck ovens and different formulations and how they work together.

Norma    Check out my post from yesterday Norma, N.Y. pizza style?, it explains my current situation. when i made my own dough(which i miss dearly) i did this, flour=100%, water=55%, IDY=.3%, salt=02%, oil=01%. I mixed in my kitchen aid mixer for about 5-6 min, also made sure the dough temp after mixing was between 80 and 85 deg., i think that is important.Then i ball and refredgerate at least overnight. I cook on deck for about 6 to 8 min around 475 deg. I am striving for a true N.Y. style.....really enjoy your posts btw.

Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2012, 12:58:58 PM »
Norma,

(Just for the sake of clarity) I am not really an NYC-style thin crust purist. I have made plenty of square pies ( http://slice.seriouseats.com/images/20110228mpmjohnwozniak.jpg ) /pies not unlike the Bonci pies. In fact, I am making a dough today for a square I will make tomorrow night likely. I also regularly make Greek-style (pan) pies -- they were my fav growing up actually (a bit north of NYC). Oh, and the pizza pic in my profile is a Neapolitan pizza that I made in a friends backyard WFO for a tasting that Paulie attended. My Neo pie was devoured  so quickly it vanished almost as soon as I served it. However my Neapolitan "style" pie was made with wild starter and fermented for 2 days. It has everything going for it that a Forcella pies does and more because of the starter. Point is I don't have anything against the Neapolitan style per se -- I just find that in practice, when sold at retail, they are pretty one dimensional (and can be quite salty). Neapolitan pies can be great though.
 
I am passionate about myth busting though and I feel bad for all the people that think that Di Fara is the best pizza. What I take issue with is that many read a magazine or regarded blog and sort of import those opinions verbatim -- well Slice said it was the best ever so it must be. I try very hard to not judge pizza I haven't had. Since I haven't had every pizza in Brooklyn and NYC, nor has anyone, how could they accurately assert Di Fara to be "the best"? To me it just makes folks look foolish. Living a 15 minute walk from Di Fara and having had it now many times, I actually have a point of comparison.

That said, I am almost 40 now and I have no doubt that as one gets older their need to assert something as the best pizza, guitar player, country, whatever, wanes. I used to care what I thought was the best -- now I realize there is no such thing. Hard to explain that to a 25 year old though.

Anywho...back to the dough :) -- your latest dough ball looks great!

EDIT: I added a bit about Neo pies.

johnhnydoubleu,

I see who you are at Slice now.  I could not associate your screen name here on the forum with your screen name on Slice.  I do remember some of your beautiful pies on MPM. Your picture on your avatar here of your Neapolitan pie on the forum is beautiful also.  I also think wild yeast starters or starters like the Ischia starter do give a whole new flavor dimension to any kind of pizza that is made.  I also have used starters, both wild and starters like Ischia in some of my doughs.  I would have used one of those starters for my market dough, but since market temperatures are all over the place, it would be to hard to accomplish that week after week. 

I can see your are passionate about myth busting and I also don’t think just because someone or an article says one pizza is the best that it means it is true. 

We’ll see how the dough turns out tomorrow.  I had some doughs before that might have looked okay, but didn’t turn out well in the end.  :-D

Thanks for your comments!  :)

Norma

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2012, 01:00:48 PM »


Franko,

I will check out your post.

Norma

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2012, 10:33:54 PM »
I used exactly the same formulation as last week to make this pizza, only less of a mix time was used.  The resulting pizza today, had a moister rim, and wasn’t exactly the same as last week.  My taste testers, Steve, and I enjoyed this pizza better than last weeks pizza.

This is a video of Steve cutting the pie.



Norma

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2012, 10:39:01 PM »
Norma


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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2012, 10:40:29 PM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2012, 10:41:50 PM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2012, 10:43:18 PM »
Norma

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2012, 10:45:00 PM »
Norma

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2012, 12:33:11 AM »
You did it again, Norma. Well done.  Sometimes truly fantastic pizzas can be hard to recreate, but not in this case.

You might look at this and see crust, sauce and cheese, but I see green. Lots and lots of green  ;D This is the caliber of pizza that I tell people will make them millionaires in 5-7 years (in most areas). That's full time, of course, so with your schedule, you won't be raking in quite as much, but if you switch to selling this pizza (or sell both) and don't see a sharp increase in sales, I'll eat my hat.

Winner winner chicken dinner ;D

buceriasdon

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2012, 07:38:54 AM »
Norma, Looks superb. You mentioned cutting back your knead time. How long was the knead?
Don

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2012, 08:10:45 AM »
You did it again, Norma. Well done.  Sometimes truly fantastic pizzas can be hard to recreate, but not in this case.

You might look at this and see crust, sauce and cheese, but I see green. Lots and lots of green  ;D This is the caliber of pizza that I tell people will make them millionaires in 5-7 years (in most areas). That's full time, of course, so with your schedule, you won't be raking in quite as much, but if you switch to selling this pizza (or sell both) and don't see a sharp increase in sales, I'll eat my hat.

Winner winner chicken dinner ;D

Scott,

Although the pizza did turn out well, I am not sure this is the best formulation or ferment times for a NY style pizza.  The crust was very good tasting, but I wonder how a longer cold ferment would work and also am curious about decreasing the oil amount a little and see if that would help or hurt. 

This dough was so easy to open, and I guess that was from the high oil amount, but I am not sure.  I would think a real NY style dough could be tossed and twirled, but I don’t think this one could be.  Even the mix time changed the dough, so I wouldn’t know whether to mix a little longer or a little shorter. 

I am glad you see green with the pizza though.  :) I wonder how well this dough could be made into other pizza related products.  I use the preferment Lehmann dough for Greek Style pizza and also other products.  I am going to try this dough again next week, maybe with a one or more tweaks.  If I remember next week, I also will take a video of how the preferment Lehmann dough pizzas sound when sliced.  They sound about the same, but are a little thicker. 

I wanted to ask you since you know so much about NY style pizzas just how is the best one, or better ones you have ever tasted in crumb structure, crunch, chewiness, etc. and how you would describe each characteristic?

Lol, Winner winner chicken dinner was funny!  The sauce and cheese were just my regular sauce and blend of mozzarellas I normally use.  I also guess bromated flour also helped this pizza, even though I hate to admit it.  :-D

Norma

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Re: NY Style?
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2012, 08:20:46 AM »
Norma, Looks superb. You mentioned cutting back your knead time. How long was the knead?
Don

Don,

Thanks for you kind comment.  :)

I mixed this dough in my Kitchen Aid mixer and incorporated the oil in with the water.  I usually need to stop the mixer a few times to get all the flour and other ingredients off the sides or bottom of the mixer bowl.  After all the ingredients were incorporated well, the dough was mixed for 6 minutes on speed one.  That was the amount of time that it took for the dough to start to want to climb the dough hook.  I then decided the dough was mixed enough.

Norma


 

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