NY Style?

[norma427]

I used exactly the same formulation as last week to make this pizza, only less of a mix time was used.  The resulting pizza today, had a moister rim, and wasn’t exactly the same as last week.  My taste testers, Steve, and I enjoyed this pizza better than last weeks pizza.

This is a video of Steve cutting the pie.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOqoHnqf8Fw" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOqoHnqf8Fw</a>

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[scott123]

You did it again, Norma. Well done.  Sometimes truly fantastic pizzas can be hard to recreate, but not in this case.

You might look at this and see crust, sauce and cheese, but I see green. Lots and lots of green  This is the caliber of pizza that I tell people will make them millionaires in 5-7 years (in most areas). That's full time, of course, so with your schedule, you won't be raking in quite as much, but if you switch to selling this pizza (or sell both) and don't see a sharp increase in sales, I'll eat my hat.

Winner winner chicken dinner

[buceriasdon]

Norma, Looks superb. You mentioned cutting back your knead time. How long was the knead?
Don

[norma427]

You did it again, Norma. Well done.  Sometimes truly fantastic pizzas can be hard to recreate, but not in this case.

You might look at this and see crust, sauce and cheese, but I see green. Lots and lots of green  This is the caliber of pizza that I tell people will make them millionaires in 5-7 years (in most areas). That's full time, of course, so with your schedule, you won't be raking in quite as much, but if you switch to selling this pizza (or sell both) and don't see a sharp increase in sales, I'll eat my hat.

Winner winner chicken dinner

Scott,

Although the pizza did turn out well, I am not sure this is the best formulation or ferment times for a NY style pizza.  The crust was very good tasting, but I wonder how a longer cold ferment would work and also am curious about decreasing the oil amount a little and see if that would help or hurt. 

This dough was so easy to open, and I guess that was from the high oil amount, but I am not sure.  I would think a real NY style dough could be tossed and twirled, but I don’t think this one could be.  Even the mix time changed the dough, so I wouldn’t know whether to mix a little longer or a little shorter. 

I am glad you see green with the pizza though.  I wonder how well this dough could be made into other pizza related products.  I use the preferment Lehmann dough for Greek Style pizza and also other products.  I am going to try this dough again next week, maybe with a one or more tweaks.  If I remember next week, I also will take a video of how the preferment Lehmann dough pizzas sound when sliced.  They sound about the same, but are a little thicker. 

I wanted to ask you since you know so much about NY style pizzas just how is the best one, or better ones you have ever tasted in crumb structure, crunch, chewiness, etc. and how you would describe each characteristic?

Lol, Winner winner chicken dinner was funny!  The sauce and cheese were just my regular sauce and blend of mozzarellas I normally use.  I also guess bromated flour also helped this pizza, even though I hate to admit it. 

Norma

[norma427]

Norma, Looks superb. You mentioned cutting back your knead time. How long was the knead?
Don

Don,

Thanks for you kind comment. 

I mixed this dough in my Kitchen Aid mixer and incorporated the oil in with the water.  I usually need to stop the mixer a few times to get all the flour and other ingredients off the sides or bottom of the mixer bowl.  After all the ingredients were incorporated well, the dough was mixed for 6 minutes on speed one.  That was the amount of time that it took for the dough to start to want to climb the dough hook.  I then decided the dough was mixed enough.

Norma

[buceriasdon]

Thanks Norma, I wanted an good example for people to see one that doesn't have to knead for 10 minutes at speed 4 to get a good dough. I put this in my favorites.
Don

[Jackie Tran]

Norma, this recent pie looks dead on perfect!  I'm really wishing for a slice this morning.  Norma, some tough love for you here, but what exactly is your allegiance to the Lehmann dough?  or the hesitation to switch?  Between the two, which one do you personally like better?  Which one leaves you wanting another slice?

Forget the fact that you can use the Lehman dough to make cookies or waffles or whatever (I'm kidding a bit here).  Your customers will buy and eat whatever you sell, but they will tell their friends and neighbors about the better pizza, which I believe this one to be.  I know you have a lot of history with the Lehman dough, but if this is a  better pie, then the dough doesn't have to act just like the Lehman dough to outsell it.

And tossing? Seriously?  Are you tossing the Lehman dough now?  Without tossing, your recent pie looks to have the proper TF and evevnous all around.  You don't need to be able to toss a dough to sell pizza.

Also, this new formula can easily be adjusted for cold fermentation.  If you can't do it, I'm sure we can help.

Chau

[norma427]

Norma, this recent pie looks dead on perfect!  I'm really wishing for a slice this morning.  Norma, some tough love for you here, but what exactly is your allegiance to the Lehmann dough?  or the hesitation to switch?  Between the two, which one do you personally like better?  Which one leaves you wanting another slice?

Forget the fact that you can use the Lehman dough to make cookies or waffles or whatever (I'm kidding a bit here).  Your customers will buy and eat whatever you sell, but they will tell their friends and neighbors about the better pizza, which I believe this one to be.  I know you have a lot of history with the Lehman dough, but if this is a  better pie, then the dough doesn't have to act just like the Lehman dough to outsell it.

And tossing? Seriously?  Are you tossing the Lehman dough now?  Without tossing, your recent pie looks to have the proper TF and evevnous all around.  You don't need to be able to toss a dough to sell pizza.

Also, this new formula can easily be adjusted for cold fermentation.  If you can't do it, I'm sure we can help.

Chau

Chau,

Thanks for you kind comment about the recent pizza looks perfect.  

My allegiance to the Lehmann dough goes back to the first pizzas I made and then went on to the preferment Lehmann dough pizzas.  The preferment Lehmann dough pizzas are very good tasting in the crust, although they do have a higher TF.  I did use a lower thickness factor, and then when the pies are kept in the heated, humidified holding cabinet they wanted to become stale quicker than when using a higher TF and also a reheat is harder with a lower TF.  I didn’t try any slices of this pie in the heated, humidified holding cabinet, so I don’t know how they would be if kept in there.  

No, I am not tossing the preferment Lehmann dough now, but if someone asks me if I can toss it I send it up for a few twirls.  

It still remains to be seen if this kind of pizza will do well in all areas.  I have always wanted to make the best possible pizza for my small market stand, so I guess there will be more experiments.  I only used some kind of cheap 1 2 3 vegetable oil from the Dollar General store as the oil.  I don’t know if the brand of oil makes any difference in this pizza either.  It is all a guessing game.  

Thanks for saying someone would help me if I need help in longer cold fermentation times.

Norma

[DannyG]

Norma,
I was trying to figure out which formulation you were using on post #40. Would you clarify?
Thanks.

[norma427]

Thanks Norma, I wanted an good example for people to see one that doesn't have to knead for 10 minutes at speed 4 to get a good dough. I put this in my favorites.
Don

Don,

I still have a lot of experimenting to do on all types of pizza doughs, but find some of the results interesting in how mix times do or do not affect the outcomes of pizzas.  I try to watch each dough to see when I think it is mixed enough, but do push the limits sometimes. Higher hydration doughs are a lot different than lower hydration doughs, (at least for me) but the oil amount can make a difference some of the times.  If you try out Peter’s formulation I would be interested in seeing how it turns out for you.  I don’t think there really is x amounts of time a dough needs to be mixed, but then hand mixing, different mixers, mixer speeds, and other things can come into play if the pizzas will turn out okay. Even at market, I only use speed one for my doughs.  I know you already know a lot of this from your experiments.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma,
I was trying to figure out which formulation you were using on post #40. Would you clarify?
Thanks.

Danny,

If you look at the first post in this thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17417.msg169185.html#msg169185 you can see the link to Peter’s formulation for a DeLorenzo clone pizza.  All I did for the recent experiment was to change the mix time.  I used a TF of 0.0785 for both of the pizzas in this thread and also used 0.40% IDY.

Norma

[DannyG]

Thanks Norma. Your pies look so good and I just wanted to make sure I got the right formula. 

[norma427]

Thanks Norma. Your pies look so good and I just wanted to make sure I got the right formula. 

Danny,

Thanks!    If you have any other questions, just ask.

Norma

[parallei]

Your last pie sure looks GOOD Norma.

[chickenparm]

Wonderful looking pie and slices.Everything is just perfect.The color of the crust,the cheese,color of the sauce,etc,all perfect.