Author Topic: An improvised New York crust  (Read 1554 times)

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Offline buzz

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An improvised New York crust
« on: August 14, 2005, 11:18:39 AM »
I've never had a New York pizza, but I scanned through the detailed info here, and last night I decided to improvise a "New York" pizza!

1.5 cups plus 1 TBS KA AP
.50 cup plus 2 TBS water
.75 TSP Pacific sea salt
.50 TSP yeast

I put it all in the bread machine on the dough cycle, let it rise for 4 hours at room temperature, then stretched it out by hand and into my Salton pizza cooker (par-baked it, then added toppings). The result was very, very good--a bit salty, owing to the saltiness of the sea salt!


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: An improvised New York crust
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2005, 03:21:23 PM »
buzz,

You have made the most minimalist NY style possible. I have tried many times in the past to make a basic "entry level" Lehmann NY style pizza using AP flour--one that can be baked on a pan or screen. However, I have never been able to fool AP flour into thinking that it is high-gluten flour. I have used both KA bread flour and KA bread flour plus vital wheat gluten to get closer, but nothing compares with KASL and at least 24 hours of refrigeration of the dough. I made a couple of Lehmann-style pizzas the other day using Mexican AP flour (while on vacation in Mexico) and everyone thought the pizzas were great--except for me, of course. The AP versions just don't compare with the KASL (or other high-gluten flour) versions. On a prior trip to Mexico I brought some vital wheat gluten which I plan to use to use soon to boost the gluten content of the Mexican AP flour to see whether it makes a difference. At home in the states, I wouldn't bother. I would just use KASL or other high-gluten flour.

I think if you cut back on your salt to about a half-teaspoon you should be OK. I estimate that you used over 2 percent.

Peter


Offline buzz

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Re: An improvised New York crust
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2005, 10:13:22 AM »
Thanks! I'll have to experiment--but what I made was very good--and reheated very well!

Offline rawcalls

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Re: An improvised New York crust
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2005, 05:45:28 PM »
Peter,
I am fairly new to making pizza but I have been using the Lehman recipe and use either KASL or All Trumps and have had better success using a 4-5 counter rise punched down half-way through, instead of a 24 refrigerated rise.  The dough is much easier to work with and I get a much lighter/airier crust.  Any idea why this would be when it seems everyone on here swears by a 24-72 hour cold-rise?  I do not notice any huge difference in the crust taste but I do notice a better texture with the counter-rise.  I have upped the yeast by about double for my recipe with the counter-rise though and like the results.   I am sure I am doing quite a few things wrong but it is hard to argue with results.  Just wondering what luck you have had with a counter-rise on your doughs.  Thanks, Rawcalls.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: An improvised New York crust
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2005, 09:04:49 PM »
Rawcalls,

I think what you have been experiencing comes down to matters of personal taste. When I first started experimenting with the Lehmann dough recipe, I tried to stick to the script as much as possible, deviating mostly to adapt the recipe to different ways of making the dough (mixer, food processor, bread machine, by hand, etc.). Later, when preferments became a popular topic on the forum, I adapted the basic Lehmann recipe to use a preferment. I was even able to make some truly outstanding room-temperature and same-day Lehmann doughs that I thought rivaled the best Lehmann doughs that were subjected to refrigeration (see, for example, Replies 165 and 175 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.160.html).  Apart from these experiments, I have never been able to produce a same-day, few-hours Lehmann dough that satisfied me personally. I recall that DKM indicated that he was able to make a decent same-day room-temperature NY style dough, so I know it can be done. But any effort I have undertaken to make a Lehmann dough in a few hours, no matter what kind of flour I used (from KASL to all-purpose), have come up short from a personal perspective. The crusts tasted cardboardish to me, the crust color was lighter than I wanted, and I had to watch carefully for bubbling. Also, unless I kept the dough really warm, as by using very warm water, the dough was too elastic and difficult to shape without springing back.

Tom Lehmann himself acknowledges that there are times when pizza operators may have to adapt dough recipes, including his, to make a same-day dough (aka "emergency dough"). This might be done, for example, when an operator runs out of the regular dough or something happens to the regular dough (e.g., the cooler breaks down overnight). To make the emergency dough, the usual practice is to use warmer water than usual and a lot more yeast. This combination will produce usable dough within a few hours. By most people's reckoning, it won't be as good as a slowly fermented retarded dough, but that is largely a matter of personal taste. The one area of pizza that I never argue about is matters of personal taste. It's not a matter of good or bad or right or wrong. I would be thrilled to be able to make a simple, few-hours, room-temperature Lehmann dough (using all-purpose flour, if possible) that rivals the ones that have pleased me the most in the past. I just haven't been able to do it yet.

Peter


 

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