Adding ADY to Starter

[djamc]

I have heard that a lot of folks add ADY to their doughs in addition to their starter...  Ed Levine states that adding ADY , IDY is not proper and can even create an unhealthy dough...

Can anyone discuss the mixing of commercial yeast with a starter?

Thanks.

Dan

[Jackie Tran]

Ed Levine states that adding ADY , IDY is not proper and can even create an unhealthy dough...

Can anyone discuss the mixing of commercial yeast with a starter?

Thanks.

Dan

Can someone tell me why IDY is not proper compared to ADY as this just seems silly to me.  Dan from time to time, I do mix commercial yeast with starter.  I do it for the perceived extra lift and I do seem to get a milder taste from the starter, especially if it is a strong tasting one.

[parallei]

Chau,

I think djamc meant that Ed Levine had stated both adding either ADY or IDY to a stater dough has somehow an issue.  I don't think he meant that IDY is bad and ADY is O.K.  That said, I do it sometimes for extra lift also.  Haven't noticed any unhealthy effects on the dough, or those who have eaten it!

[TXCraig1]

I see it as sort of a "belt and suspenders" approach. I think Chau and Paul are correct that, in certain circumstances, it will produce extra lift. I don't think, however, that you get any extra lift vs. optimal use of a starter capable of producting the lift you desire.

CL

[dmcavanagh]

I agree with Craig, I think it's a bit of an insurance policy incase your starter is not at it's peak. Still much better to have your starter at optimal strength and not have to depend on anything else.

[cornicione54]

I think there's a case to be made for using starter as a preferment rather than a leavening agent, and adding IDY/ADY in the final dough. In such instances, IDY/ADY isn't a crutch but rather a case of using "starter" in the same way you might use a traditional poolish or biga.

[parallei]

I think it's a bit of an insurance policy incase your starter is not at it's peak.

There you go.  Blasphemy, I'm sure.

[Jackie Tran]

I think there's a case to be made for using starter as a preferment rather than a leavening agent, and adding IDY/ADY in the final dough. In such instances, IDY/ADY isn't a crutch but rather a case of using "starter" in the same way you might use a traditional poolish or biga.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if and when you use a starter as a preferment, you are typically using it in large amounts 20-40% or more.  At this rate, there is plenty of yeast already.  Adding more IDY/ADY seems like a moot point and will only hasten fermentation.  Having said that, it does seem to be a fairly popular method/technique as I have also seen it in several bread baking books. 

[cornicione54]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if and when you use a starter as a preferment, you are typically using it in large amounts 20-40% or more.  At this rate, there is plenty of yeast already.  Adding more IDY/ADY seems like a moot point and will only hasten fermentation.  Having said that, it does seem to be a fairly popular method/technique as I have also seen it in several bread baking books.  

That is true. Rule of thumb is no more than 20% of the total flour in the preferment (40% baker's percentage assuming 100% hydration). Sure the dough would rise without additional IDY/ADY but the whole point of the practice of using a preferment (as opposed to solely raising the dough via levain) is to reap the benefits of flavor (and/or extensibility, strength etc.) from the preferment while keeping your final dough fermentation time down. So you add IDY/ADY to the final dough in proportion to the remaining (additional) flour just as you would if you were using a poolish or biga

[parallei]

If I remember correctly, the Tartin baguette dough uses both a levain and IDY.  They always tasted pretty good to me, and different than a full levain or IDY dough.  But maybe it is my imagination.....

[cornicione54]

If I remember correctly, the Tartin baguette dough uses both a levain and IDY.  They always tasted pretty good to me, and different than a full levain or IDY dough.  But maybe it is my imagination.....

Baguettes would be a good example where the flavor of a levain is a desirable benefit but an extended rise with levain alone might introduce undesirable effects (eg toughening of crumb). With a young levain and IDY, you end up with a light acidity, (extensibility, assuming levain is fairly wet),  good flavor and relatively short fermentation times for the final dough.