Author Topic: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow  (Read 41318 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #325 on: March 20, 2012, 09:25:10 PM »
Craig,

Thanks so much for following though with Ralph and him giving you the revised Nutrition Facts.  You and Peter were right for a long while.   ;D

Norma


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #326 on: March 20, 2012, 10:04:00 PM »
No problem. It was fun playing detective. Helped Ralph out too.

CL
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #327 on: March 20, 2012, 10:36:01 PM »
No problem. It was fun playing detective. Helped Ralph out too.

CL

Craig,

I know you are a great detective.  8)  It did help Ralph out too.  I guess Ralph never would have know his Nutrition Facts were wrong if there wasnít some investigating on this thread.

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #328 on: March 21, 2012, 10:08:16 AM »
Norma,

You will note from the corrected Nutrition Facts that Craig posted that there were some changes.

Apart from correcting the Carbohydrates value, the amount of the serving size was changed from 56 grams to 57 grams, from a value of 448 grams to a total weight (rounded) of 456 grams. The sodium quantity was also reduced from 300 mg to 190 mg per serving size (from a total of 2100 mg to 1520 mg). Based on some calculations I did yesterday that looked at the sodium content of the flour, yeast and water for the increased dough weight (456 grams), I would estimate that the new salt quantity may be around 1.25%. Lowering the salt quantity may also require changing the formula hydration value a bit to get back to the 45.1% hydration bake test value.

The other notable change is the increase in the Protein number. That value went from 4 grams to 5 grams per serving. It is hard to know what to make of that. It could mean that a flour with a higher protein content is now being used, but it could also mean that rounding factors are at play. For example, a protein number of 4.4 grams could have previously been rounded to 4 grams but an increase in that value to 4.6 grams could be rounded to 5 grams. Maybe the slight increase in the total dough weight from 448 grams to 456 grams could be the reason for the increased protein value. Unfortunately, I have no way of calculating the protein value of the Pepe's clone dough formulations I came up with for you to use. Most protein calculations are done using equipment such as described, for example, at page 16 of the document at http://www.nebraskawheat.com/pdfs/Wheat%20and%20Flour%20Testing%20Methods%20Book.pdf. That test is commonly called the N x 6.25 test, although that is a somewhat generic value and some feel that the more appropriate value to use for flour is the N x 5.7 or N x 5.8 test. Without knowing what protein test is behind the data we see at places like SelfNutritionData or at the USDA, there is no way to use their databases to determine the amount of protein for the Pepe's clone dough formulations I gave you.

Of course, none of the above means all that much if you are satisfied with the results you have been getting using the Better for Bread flour or similar flours. You would have to get a more recent Pepe's dough ball to repeat the tests you previously conducted to see if perhaps the new Pepe's dough balls have been changed from a formulation standpoint.

Peter

EDIT (9/10/14): For the Wayback Machine version of the Nebraska Wheat document, see http://web.archive.org/web/20120523204908/http://www.nebraskawheat.com/pdfs/Wheat%20and%20Flour%20Testing%20Methods%20Book.pdf

« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 04:22:20 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #329 on: March 21, 2012, 10:27:39 AM »
Norma,

You will note from the corrected Nutrition Facts that Craig posted that there were some changes.

Apart from correcting the Carbohydrates value, the amount of the serving size was changed from 56 grams to 57 grams, from a value of 448 grams to a total weight (rounded) of 456 grams. The sodium quantity was also reduced from 300 mg to 190 mg per serving size (from a total of 2100 mg to 1520 mg). Based on some calculations I did yesterday that looked at the sodium content of the flour, yeast and water for the increased dough weight (456 grams), I would estimate that the new salt quantity may be around 1.25%. Lowering the salt quantity may also require changing the formula hydration value a bit to get back to the 45.1% hydration bake test value.

The other notable change is the increase in the Protein number. That value went from 4 grams to 5 grams per serving. It is hard to know what to make of that. It could mean that a flour with a higher protein content is now being used, but it could also mean that rounding factors are at play. For example, a protein number of 4.4 grams could have previously been rounded to 4 grams but an increase in that value to 4.6 grams could be rounded to 5 grams. Maybe the slight increase in the total dough weight from 448 grams to 456 grams could be the reason for the increased protein value. Unfortunately, I have no way of calculating the protein value of the Pepe's clone dough formulations I came up with for you to use. Most protein calculations are done using equipment such as described, for example, at page 16 of the document at http://www.nebraskawheat.com/pdfs/Wheat%20and%20Flour%20Testing%20Methods%20Book.pdf. That test is commonly called the N x 6.25 test, although that is a somewhat generic value and some feel that the more appropriate value to use for flour is the N x 5.7 or N x 5.8 test. Without knowing what protein test is behind the data we see at places like SelfNutritionData or at the USDA, there is no way to use their databases to determine the amount of protein for the Pepe's clone dough formulations I gave you.

Of course, none of the above means all that much if you are satisfied with the results you have been getting using the Better for Bread flour or similar flours. You would have to get a more recent Pepe's dough ball to repeat the tests you previously conducted to see if perhaps the new Pepe's dough balls have been changed from a formulation standpoint.

Peter



Peter,

Thanks you for posting what all the differences are now since Ralph corrected the Nutrition Facts.  I didnít note last evening the serving size was changed from 56 grams to 57 grams, or the salt (sodium) was also reduced.  It is also interesting that you think maybe a slight increase in the total dough weight could be the reason for the increased protein value.  I can understand you have no way of doing those calculations for protein values. 

Thanks also for the link about how most protein calculations are done with the specialized equipment. 

Sometime when I visit a SuperWal-Mart I will look and see if the Nutrition Facts have changed on the Pepeís frozen dough balls.  I might even purchase a few.

Norma

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #330 on: March 21, 2012, 10:33:55 PM »
I'll be curious to hear how long it takes to see the new packaging.
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #331 on: March 21, 2012, 11:09:35 PM »
I'll be curious to hear how long it takes to see the new packaging.

Craig,

I also am curious to know how long it will take for Pepeís frozen dough balls to have the new Nutrition Facts on the plastic bags.  When I talked to Ralph he told me he does supply the plastic bags to the bakery and had many boxes of plastic bags. Maybe Ralph will take those plastic bags as a business loss. I have no idea how long it would take Ralph to get a company to make new plastic bags with the right Nutrition Facts on them. Maybe since Dave is in NY he might see the new labeling faster than I do.  My Pepe's frozen dough balls were almost one year old if the stamp on the bag was correct.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #332 on: March 25, 2012, 09:22:38 PM »
I started to defrost the Salsís Whole Grain Wheat dough for Tuesday this evening.  I am going to let it sit out at room temperature for awhile, before it is left to cold ferment, because I am late in starting the defrost.  I never have been able to make a decent wheat dough pizza so it will be interesting to me how the Pepeís wheat dough turns out when made into a pizza.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #333 on: March 26, 2012, 06:08:23 PM »
The whole wheat Salís dough ball doesnít look like it has fermented any since last evening.  I had left it sit out for 3 hours last evening at room temperature so it would start the defrost.

Norma


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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #334 on: March 27, 2012, 09:31:05 PM »
The Salís Whole Wheat dough wasnít rising a lot so it sat out at room temperature for about 3 hours.  The dough was very easy to open and went beyond a 16Ē skin before I knew it.  The pizza baked well.  The taste of Salís whole wheat pizza was good.  4 of my taste testers tried this pizza and they all thought it was good too.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #335 on: March 27, 2012, 09:32:31 PM »
Norma

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #336 on: March 27, 2012, 09:33:29 PM »
Norma

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #337 on: March 27, 2012, 09:34:43 PM »
Norma

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #338 on: March 27, 2012, 09:35:46 PM »
Norma

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #339 on: March 27, 2012, 09:36:42 PM »
Norma

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #340 on: March 27, 2012, 09:37:29 PM »
Norma

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #341 on: March 27, 2012, 09:39:09 PM »
Norma


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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #342 on: March 28, 2012, 11:15:14 AM »
The Sal's looks like it baked up really nice for you - good looking pie. I might have to try it for kicks and grins. I like whole wheat, but I like it sweet. Maybe a whole wheat pie with a sweet spicy topping like the Hellboy?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #343 on: March 28, 2012, 02:06:38 PM »
The Sal's looks like it baked up really nice for you - good looking pie. I might have to try it for kicks and grins. I like whole wheat, but I like it sweet. Maybe a whole wheat pie with a sweet spicy topping like the Hellboy?

Craig,

The Salís whole wheat pie did bake up well and tasted really good. Even Steve liked it. Maybe you can find some kind of frozen whole wheat dough, or are you going to make your own whole wheat dough?  I would really be interested if you tried your own whole wheat dough.  I havenít even been able to make a decent whole wheat dough.  A whole wheat pie with a sweet spicy topping like Hellboy sounds great to me!  ;D Looking forward to your experiments if you decide to give it a try.  :)

Norma

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #344 on: August 08, 2012, 09:22:03 PM »
These are the pictures of the mystery dough pie I tried to make at market yesterday.  The whole experiment went terribly wrong.  :-[  Since I usually post pictures of experiments even when they go wrong, this one isnít any different.  From the time I mixed this dough until I wanted to make the final pizza was supposed to be an hour, instead of 5-10 minutes that was recommend.  The total time until I could make this pizza was over 3 hrs.  That was too long to ferment the dough at high room temperatures.  The dough was so over fermented that I had a hard time opening the dough.   

I also wanted to add some fresh veggies, but Steve wasnít too thrilled about adding fresh tomatoes, so I put all the veggies in some garlic infused herb oil to mask the tomato flavor.  After thinking about it until recently,  I think the reason this pizza looked like someone barfed on it was I didnít drain enough of the garlic infused herb oil off of the veggies enough.  :-D The garlic herb oil veggies in combination with all cheddar was too much fat for this pizza.  The resulting crumb of this pizza was also really off I think from the long fermentation time.

The only reasons why I purchased the Weis pizza crust mix was it was only .79, it had a chemical leavening system in combination with active dry yeast, dextrose was an ingredient and also had a nonfat milk product in the mix.  I thought those ingredients sounded interesting.   

I never would even try to ask anyone to guess about what this pizza might have been made from, since it turned so terribly wrong.

Norma

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #345 on: August 08, 2012, 09:23:04 PM »
Norma

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #346 on: August 08, 2012, 09:23:36 PM »
Norma

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #347 on: August 08, 2012, 09:25:27 PM »
Norma

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #348 on: August 08, 2012, 09:27:04 PM »
Norma

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #349 on: August 08, 2012, 09:28:17 PM »
Norma