Author Topic: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow  (Read 14689 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #140 on: February 21, 2012, 09:32:34 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #141 on: February 21, 2012, 09:33:29 PM »
Norma
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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #142 on: February 21, 2012, 09:34:51 PM »
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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #143 on: February 21, 2012, 09:36:03 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #144 on: February 21, 2012, 09:37:27 PM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #145 on: February 21, 2012, 09:38:32 PM »
Norma
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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #146 on: February 21, 2012, 09:39:34 PM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #147 on: February 21, 2012, 09:40:38 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #148 on: February 21, 2012, 09:41:58 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #149 on: February 21, 2012, 09:55:55 PM »
These are the videos of Steve cutting both pies with a pizza cutter.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCEvgjNQieM" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCEvgjNQieM</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1tpovL8mSU" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1tpovL8mSU</a>


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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #150 on: February 21, 2012, 10:07:46 PM »
Norma,

I'm glad that the Pepe's clone dough worked out for you. I take that to be a good sign that the hydration bake test and the gluten mass test are useful tools to use in reverse engineering and cloning someone else's dough.

I can't say that I could tell which pizza was which in your photos. Can you tell us which was the Pepe's pizza and which was the Pepe's clone pizza?

You might recall that I intentionally used less salt than I calculated from the Pepe's Nutrition Facts, based on your original comments on the level of salt that you tasted in the Pepe's crust. Increasing the amount of salt is easy enough to do. Also, I based my numbers on a one-pound dough ball (453.6 grams), not 448 grams. When I have a chance, I will play around with a next iteration. One thing I'd like to see if the new numbers suggest using a different flour.

One of the nice things about being able to make your own Pepe's clone dough is that you don't have to worry about Wal-Mart dropping the Pepe's product. That sort of thing happens all the time, including at Wal-Mart.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #151 on: February 21, 2012, 10:30:52 PM »
Norma,

I'm glad that the Pepe's clone dough worked out for you. I take that to be a good sign that the hydration bake test and the gluten mass test are useful tools to use in reverse engineering and cloning someone else's dough.

I can't say that I could tell which pizza was which in your photos. Can you tell us which was the Pepe's pizza and which was the Pepe's clone pizza?

You might recall that I intentionally used less salt than I calculated from the Pepe's Nutrition Facts, based on your original comments on the level of salt that you tasted in the Pepe's crust. Increasing the amount of salt is easy enough to do. Also, I based my numbers on a one-pound dough ball (453.6 grams), not 448 grams. When I have a chance, I will play around with a next iteration. One thing I'd like to see if the new numbers suggest using a different flour.

One of the nice things about being able to make your own Pepe's clone dough is that you don't have to worry about Wal-Mart dropping the Pepe's product. That sort of thing happens all the time, including at Wal-Mart.

Peter

Peter,

I am also glad the Pepe’s clone dough ball worked out well.  It seems like the hydration bake test and the gluten mass test were useful tools to use in reverse engineering and cloning someone else’s dough and you being able to do the calculations.

You mean you can’t tell which pizza was your Pepe’s clone formulation. :-D  I am just kidding, but they both did look and taste almost alike. The first set of pictures were the Pepe’s pizza and the second set of pictures were the Pepe’s clone pizza.  The videos also were the Pepe’s pizza being the first video.

I recall you intentionally use less salt than you calculated from the Pepe’s Nurtrition Facts, based on my original comments on the level of salt that we tasted in the Pepe’s crust.  I meant that the Pepe’s clone rim did taste saltier.  Why would that be?  Thanks for saying you will play around with the numbers for the next iteration.  When I have time, probably Thursday, I will do the gluten mass tests on the other two flours, just to see what they are.  I think you nailed the flour just right for the Pepe’s clone formulation. 

It is nice that I don’t need to worry about Wal-mart not selling the Pepe’s dough anymore. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #152 on: February 21, 2012, 10:50:35 PM »
Norma,

Now that you have identified the two pizzas, I think I like the looks of the Pepe's clone better. But maybe the Pepe's dough was long in the tooth, especially if the dates you noted on the packaging were production dates.

I misread what you posted on the salt. I got the two dough reversed on the salt. Flours in a particular class tend to have the same amounts of sodium, and their values are very low, so the only other possibility that comes to mind is that the Pepe's dough uses a salt that is different in salinity than the salt you used in the Pepe's clone dough. But sodium is sodium so I will have to think about this some more.

Peter

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #153 on: February 22, 2012, 02:50:23 PM »
Norma,

I have set forth below the next iteration (2.0) of the Pepe's clone dough formulation. In doing so, I made the following changes. First, I used 448 grams for the total dough ball weight rather than 453.6 grams (a pound). Second, I increased the amount of cake yeast in order to give the finished dough a bit faster rise and fermentation. Finally, I reduced the amount of salt slightly from 1.80% to 1.75%. On a volume basis, different types and brands of salt have different amounts of sodium. I have no idea what kind of salt is used in the Pepe's dough. For my experiments using standard table salt, I have been using the Morton's table salt. I have noticed that cheaper brands of salt, like house brand salts, tend to have more additives than the Morton's brand. If 1.75% salt also turns out to be a bit too salty, we can reduce it again in a future formulation.

The Pepe's clone dough formulation set forth below meets the requirement that the total water content by weight be equal to 45.1% of the total weight of the finished dough ball, just as you established with the hydration bake test. In order to get all of the numbers to line up properly, I had to slightly lower the nominal formula hydration value, from 57% to 56.9%.

I did all of the same calculations as I did with the first Pepe's clone dough formulation and I do not see anything at this point to suggest that you use a different flour. I think you can use both the KAAP and BforB flours although I still give a slight edge to the BforB flour. The effective hydration of the new Pepe's dough formulation that takes into account the water content (68.68%) of the cake yeast is 58.79%. That is almost the same as the first Pepe's dough clone formulation. For the carbohydrates, I did several calculations, including calculations using the BforB and KAAP flours and calculations according to the method required by the FDA (total product weight-crude protein-total fat-moisture-ash). The latter calculation uses the Nutrition Facts for the real Pepe's dough and the Nutrition Facts for the BforB and KAAP flours. I assumed that the correct amount of carbohydrates for the Pepe's dough is 26 grams per serving rather than 36 grams per serving. To have a convenient record of the carbohydrate calculations, I have also summarized the numbers I got, along with some of the other pertinent numbers.

If the new Pepe's clone dough formulation works out better than the last one, at some point you might want to consider using IDY instead of cake yeast, especially if you decide that you would like to sell the Pepe's clone pizzas at market. Using IDY is likely to be more convenient to use and it may be cheaper in the long run than using cake yeast in the volumes that you might do at market (unless you can freeze unused cake yeast without impairing its performance when used in the Pepe's clone doughs).

Pepe's Clone Dough Formulation (2.0)
Flour (100%):
Water (56.9%):
CY (2.75%):
Salt (1.75%):
Total (161.4%):
277.57 g  |  9.79 oz | 0.61 lbs
157.94 g  |  5.57 oz | 0.35 lbs
7.63 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs |
4.86 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.87 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
448 g | 15.8 oz | 0.99 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: No bowl residue compensation

Metrics:
Hydration test calculation: 45.1% (in full compliance with Norma's hydration bake test results)
Effective formula hydration that takes into account the water content of the cake yeast = 58.79%
BforB carbohydrates calculation based on the BforB flour and the cake yeast: 204.25 grams (versus 8 x 26 = 208 grams)
KAAP carbohydrates calculation based on the KAAP flour and the cake yeast: 203.22 grams (versus 208 grams)
Alternative carbohydrate calculation (per the FDA requirements) for the BforB flour: 209.74 grams (versus 208 grams)
Alternative carbohydrate calculation (per the FDA requirements) for the KAAP flour: 209.35 grams (versus 208 grams)

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #154 on: February 22, 2012, 07:36:33 PM »
Norma,

I have set forth below the next iteration (2.0) of the Pepe's clone dough formulation. In doing so, I made the following changes. First, I used 448 grams for the total dough ball weight rather than 453.6 grams (a pound). Second, I increased the amount of cake yeast in order to give the finished dough a bit faster rise and fermentation. Finally, I reduced the amount of salt slightly from 1.80% to 1.75%. On a volume basis, different types and brands of salt have different amounts of sodium. I have no idea what kind of salt is used in the Pepe's dough. For my experiments using standard table salt, I have been using the Morton's table salt. I have noticed that cheaper brands of salt, like house brand salts, tend to have more additives than the Morton's brand. If 1.75% salt also turns out to be a bit too salty, we can reduce it again in a future formulation.

The Pepe's clone dough formulation set forth below meets the requirement that the total water content by weight be equal to 45.1% of the total weight of the finished dough ball, just as you established with the hydration bake test. In order to get all of the numbers to line up properly, I had to slightly lower the nominal formula hydration value, from 57% to 56.9%.

I did all of the same calculations as I did with the first Pepe's clone dough formulation and I do not see anything at this point to suggest that you use a different flour. I think you can use both the KAAP and BforB flours although I still give a slight edge to the BforB flour. The effective hydration of the new Pepe's dough formulation that takes into account the water content (68.68%) of the cake yeast is 58.79%. That is almost the same as the first Pepe's dough clone formulation. For the carbohydrates, I did several calculations, including calculations using the BforB and KAAP flours and calculations according to the method required by the FDA (total product weight-crude protein-total fat-moisture-ash). The latter calculation uses the Nutrition Facts for the real Pepe's dough and the Nutrition Facts for the BforB and KAAP flours. I assumed that the correct amount of carbohydrates for the Pepe's dough is 26 grams per serving rather than 36 grams per serving. To have a convenient record of the carbohydrate calculations, I have also summarized the numbers I got, along with some of the other pertinent numbers.

If the new Pepe's clone dough formulation works out better than the last one, at some point you might want to consider using IDY instead of cake yeast, especially if you decide that you would like to sell the Pepe's clone pizzas at market. Using IDY is likely to be more convenient to use and it may be cheaper in the long run than using cake yeast in the volumes that you might do at market (unless you can freeze unused cake yeast without impairing its performance when used in the Pepe's clone doughs).

Pepe's Clone Dough Formulation (2.0)
Flour (100%):
Water (56.9%):
CY (2.75%):
Salt (1.75%):
Total (161.4%):
277.57 g  |  9.79 oz | 0.61 lbs
157.94 g  |  5.57 oz | 0.35 lbs
7.63 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs |
4.86 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.87 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
448 g | 15.8 oz | 0.99 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: No bowl residue compensation

Metrics:
Hydration test calculation: 45.1% (in full compliance with Norma's hydration bake test results)
Effective formula hydration that takes into account the water content of the cake yeast = 58.79%
BforB carbohydrates calculation based on the BforB flour and the cake yeast: 204.25 grams (versus 8 x 26 = 208 grams)
KAAP carbohydrates calculation based on the KAAP flour and the cake yeast: 203.22 grams (versus 208 grams)
Alternative carbohydrate calculation (per the FDA requirements) for the BforB flour: 209.74 grams (versus 208 grams)
Alternative carbohydrate calculation (per the FDA requirements) for the KAAP flour: 209.35 grams (versus 208 grams)

Peter

Peter,

Thank you for setting-forth the next iteration (2.0) of the Pepe’s clone dough formulation for me and any other members that might want to try a Pepe’s clone dough and pizza.  

I don’t normally use regular salt in any of my foods at home, but use sea salt or kosher salt.  I have an off brand of salt at home called Clover Valley Iodized Salt and only have used it for some experiments with pizza.  It says on the Nutrition Fact that for a serving size of ¼ tsp. (1.5g) the sodium is 590mg.  The Clover Valley Iodized Salt does have other ingredients added, but they only show up on the total sodium amount.  Do you think that is why my attempt was a little more salty than the Pepe’s dough?  I could purchase some Morton’s salt if you think that would be better.

I don’t think it will matter at all that you had to slightly lower the nominal formula hydration value to get the numbers to line up.  That is a small change.  The Pepe’s dough and the Pepe’s clone dough opened so easily yesterday.  In fact, if someone looks at the pictures with the measuring tape, it can be seen that the dough opened so easily that for both pizzas I had more than a 16” pizza.  I didn’t want to do that, but the dough just opened in no time at all.  

I didn’t get any call back from Wal-Mart as of tonight but the man I spoke to said if I didn’t get a call back in a few days to call again.  If I don’t get any call back until later tomorrow I might call again to try and find out who the manufacturer of the Pepe’s frozen dough ball is.  

Good to hear that since you did all the calculation again that you did not see anything at this point to suggest to use another flour.  I will use the Better for Bread flour again for this attempt since it seemed to produce good results.  I didn’t know that FDA had calculation methods that are called total product weight-curde protein-total fat-moisture-ash).  That sounds complicated.  Couldn’t the moisture in the flour fall if the flour had been sitting around for awhile?  I would also think that the number of carbohydrates for a Pepe’s dough ball would correctly be 26 grams per serving size as you just mentioned and Craig also mentioned before.  

I might consider changing the cake yeast to IDY if the formulation you set-forth works out well next week.  I know I can buy cake yeast from my distributor, but think I have to buy it in cases.  I have to call them to see if I can only purchase it by the block.  I know I don’t have a high volume pizza business and cake yeast can go bad fast.  I am not sure of how much I damaged the cake yeast by freezing it, but do think I did damage it some by freezing.  I had also used the Red Star cake yeast in my Caputo thread and it was frozen too.  I might check at our local Giant again to see if they are still carrying the cake yeast so I could try some that isn’t frozen.  I think IDY would be more convenient though.  

I am really seriously considering the clone Pepe’s dough for market.  It seems to hold up well so far in the heated cabinet, is easy to open and tastes good.  Of course, I would have to do other experiments to see what happens.  I didn’t think a basically one day dough would produce such a good dough and taste in the crust.  Wouldn’t the Pepe’s clone dough be basically a one day cold fermented dough if we skipped the freezing part?  I don’t recall ever trying a NY style dough with only flour, salt, and yeast.  I have tried Neapolitan dough with only those ingredients.  I was pleasantly surprised at how well a dough with no oil added turned out in opening the dough ball and the final pizza.  Isn’t basically that the way old style NY pizza businesses made their dough with a lower protein flour and also just salt and cake yeast?

Thanks for doing all the calculations again.  :)

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #155 on: February 22, 2012, 08:50:03 PM »
Norma,

I have been told (I believe it was November) that the best table salt to use is the Diamond Crystal brand. However, that brand is not sold in the stores near me and I usually forget to check stores in other parts of the country when I travel there. I tried to find the Nutrition Facts and the ingredients list for the Diamond Crystal table salt but the advice that is usually given, even by Diamond Crystal itself, is to check the information on the labels. I checked the label for the Morton's table salt and its ingredients are as follows: Salt, calcium silicate (an anticaking agent), dextrose, potassium iodide. For comparison purposes, I have a house brand of table salt that has these ingredients: Salt, dextrose, potassium iodide, sodium, bicarbonate, yellow prussiate of soda. Both products have the same amount of sodium (590 mg per 1/4-teaspoon). However, sodium bicarbonate (aka baking soda) and yellow prussiate of soda are both sodium based. If your table salt includes these other ingredients, possibly you are getting flavors that you perceived as saltiness.

I have been playing around more with the FDA rules for carbohydrates ever since you raised your question about that item. The FDA's method of calculating carbohydrates is not all that complicated since several of the values (like crude protein and total fat) are already in the Nutrition Facts of products. For the remaining values in this project I have used the Nutrition Facts for the ingredients like flour or the information provided by nutritiondata.self.com website for other ingredients like cake yeast. You are correct about the moisture content of flour changing over time. I have been using 14% moisture, which is how most white flours in the U.S. are rated. To get an actual moisture content of a given flour, you would have to essentially do a hydration bake test like you did with the 10-gram sample of the Pepe's dough but using only raw flour. I'm not sure that that can be done effectively in a home environment. Flour rarely gets too far above or too far below the 14% number, especially if the flour is properly stored. So, the moisture content of the flour is unlikely to throw off the carbohydrate numbers that much.

Freezing cake yeast can have harmful effects, like the release of glutathione. Tom Lehmann has talked about this problem over at the PMQ Think Tank at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3064&p=15713&hilit=#p15803. However, maybe this isn't such a bad thing for a frozen dough since any glutathione released by freezing might make the dough easier to handle. You would have to try using a fresh cake yeast to see if that produces a different result. It's possible that the Pepe's dough may not have much glutathione released by freezing if it uses flash freezing at very low temperatures. You will also note that even Tom suggests going to IDY.

You are also basically correct about replacing freezing with a regular cold ferment. However, you may have to reduce the amount of yeast to achieve a comparable dough condition for a cold ferment application. You may have to do some experimentation to find the best value of yeast to use. What you are able to do may also be affected by the rules of the market that govern your access to the market.

Peter

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #156 on: February 22, 2012, 09:48:14 PM »
If memory serves me, dextrose (stabilizes the KI) represnets about 0.04% by weight of iodized salt, and KI is about 0.01% by weight. This means there can't be too much sodium bicarbonate or YPS. Do you know why they call it yellow prussiate of soda when used as an ingredient?... because it's real name is sodium ferrocyanide which doesn't sound so yummy...
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #157 on: February 22, 2012, 11:01:25 PM »
Norma,

I have been told (I believe it was November) that the best table salt to use is the Diamond Crystal brand. However, that brand is not sold in the stores near me and I usually forget to check stores in other parts of the country when I travel there. I tried to find the Nutrition Facts and the ingredients list for the Diamond Crystal table salt but the advice that is usually given, even by Diamond Crystal itself, is to check the information on the labels. I checked the label for the Morton's table salt and its ingredients are as follows: Salt, calcium silicate (an anticaking agent), dextrose, potassium iodide. For comparison purposes, I have a house brand of table salt that has these ingredients: Salt, dextrose, potassium iodide, sodium, bicarbonate, yellow prussiate of soda. Both products have the same amount of sodium (590 mg per 1/4-teaspoon). However, sodium bicarbonate (aka baking soda) and yellow prussiate of soda are both sodium based. If your table salt includes these other ingredients, possibly you are getting flavors that you perceived as saltiness.

I have been playing around more with the FDA rules for carbohydrates ever since you raised your question about that item. The FDA's method of calculating carbohydrates is not all that complicated since several of the values (like crude protein and total fat) are already in the Nutrition Facts of products. For the remaining values in this project I have used the Nutrition Facts for the ingredients like flour or the information provided by nutritiondata.self.com website for other ingredients like cake yeast. You are correct about the moisture content of flour changing over time. I have been using 14% moisture, which is how most white flours in the U.S. are rated. To get an actual moisture content of a given flour, you would have to essentially do a hydration bake test like you did with the 10-gram sample of the Pepe's dough but using only raw flour. I'm not sure that that can be done effectively in a home environment. Flour rarely gets too far above or too far below the 14% number, especially if the flour is properly stored. So, the moisture content of the flour is unlikely to throw off the carbohydrate numbers that much.

Freezing cake yeast can have harmful effects, like the release of glutathione. Tom Lehmann has talked about this problem over at the PMQ Think Tank at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3064&p=15713&hilit=#p15803. However, maybe this isn't such a bad thing for a frozen dough since any glutathione released by freezing might make the dough easier to handle. You would have to try using a fresh cake yeast to see if that produces a different result. It's possible that the Pepe's dough may not have much glutathione released by freezing if it uses flash freezing at very low temperatures. You will also note that even Tom suggests going to IDY.

You are also basically correct about replacing freezing with a regular cold ferment. However, you may have to reduce the amount of yeast to achieve a comparable dough condition for a cold ferment application. You may have to do some experimentation to find the best value of yeast to use. What you are able to do may also be affected by the rules of the market that govern your access to the market.

Peter


Peter

I didn’t know that the best table salt would be the Diamond Crystal brand.  I don’t know if stores near me sell that brand, but I will look.  I never would have thought your house brand of salt would contain sodium bicarbonate.  It just goes to show you never know what are in some products.  My house brand that I mentioned before on the ingredients reads:  salt, sodiumcilicoalamate, sodium thosulfate and potassium iodide.  I also have a little of a Shurfine salt that isn’t iodized and it only lists as the ingredients salt and silicoalumide.  I might not have spelled all those ingredients right, but I only use the Shurfine brand of salt if my steps get a little slippery.  I sure don’t have any idea if the salt I used in the Pepe’s clone gave the flavor of perceived more saltiness, but I guess it could have.  Steve ask me if I weighed the salt amount right and I told him I had used my small scale so I would have thought I measured right.

I didn’t know you have been playing around more with the FDA rules for carbohydrates since I raised the question about that.  I didn’t even know that most white flours in the US are rated at about 14%.  I store my flours either in plastic containers or plastic ziplock bags, so I guess I wouldn’t have a lot of moisture loss.

I also didn’t know freezing cake yeast releases glutathione.  I see from Tom’s post glutathione is much like L-cysteine and can have a softening affect on the dough.  I see Tom does recommend changing to IDY.  My freezer freezes fairly fast, but I can see my cake yeast having damage.

I guess I have already learned a lot on this thread, thanks to you, Tom and Craig.

I can understand that replacing freezing with a cold ferment would require the yeast to be reduced for a regular cold ferment application.  It is always the rules of the market that somehow foul things up, but I will keep experimenting to see what can and can’t be done in a Pepe’s clone dough.

Norma
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 11:03:38 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #158 on: February 23, 2012, 05:05:57 PM »
I tried two supermarkets today to try and find Diamond Crystal salt, but didn’t have any luck.  I purchased non-iodized Morton’s salt.  I also found fresh cake yeast that is dated for 3/07/2012 so I have fresh cake yeast to use in my attempt with a (2.0) Pepe’s clone.

I did the wet gluten mass tests on the Ceresota flour and the Mondako bleached flour today.  The Ceresota wet gluten mass weighed 59.93 grams after washing and the Mondako bleached wet gluten mass weighed 66.74 grams after washing.

I thought maybe the Mondako dough ball wasn’t washed enough that the wet gluten weighed that much so I washed some more, but it seems even if I washed 10 minutes more the wet gluten mass weighed the same.  I am not sure of why it weighed so much.  I did use 6 ounces of each flour and 3 ounces of water again for both dough balls.  I also noticed when mixing the dough ball with the Mondako that it seemed to mix better and even in the washing for the wet gluten test it seemed more spongy and had better gluten development.  I am not sure why that was either.  I mixed both dough balls the same amount of time. The Ceresota wet gluten mass is darker than the Mondako wet gluten mass.  I guess that is because the Mondako wet gluten mass is from bleached flour.  I don’t know if it can be seen in the pictures but the Mondako wet gluten mass seems like the gluten is more organized and the wet gluten mass is more solid.  When touching both flours when mixing the dough balls the Mondako flour seemed a lot finer than the Ceresota flour. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #159 on: February 23, 2012, 05:07:13 PM »
Norma
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 05:10:38 PM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!