Author Topic: Does anyone have WFO selection advice? Amerigo vs. Forno Bravo Casa2G 90  (Read 587 times)

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Offline lportz

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Hello all experienced, knowledgable pizza experts!  I'm new to the site and have already learned how much I have to learn.   ;D  Can't wait. 

My fist step is to figure out just which oven we should get.  We're looking for WFO for an outdoor patio primarily to make Neapolitan pizzas but to also have the option for other things during warm up or cool down phases (hey, while it's hot, we might as well cook!).  Our contractor has local access to StoneAge Amerigos, but it sounds like there isn't much experience with that oven on the forum, and what experience there is, is not positive.  Anyone have insights or warnings to share?

We're also looking at the Forno Bravo 2G90, but I'm worried about whether it can adjust to massive temperature changes that we have in MN (think -40 in winter to 100 in summer at the extremes).  I'm checking the FB forum as well, but so far no luck.  I love the size (36", 3 pizzas at a time) and the feedback I've seen on this model has been favorable, but it's also $800 more than the one bid by our contractor so I want to make sure that we don't spend the money (plus the extra to do the footings, slab and surround) only to have the California-made oven crack in the cold. 

Would love to hear any insight or opinions you have to share. 


Offline csafranek

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Re: Does anyone have WFO selection advice? Amerigo vs. Forno Bravo Casa2G 90
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2014, 09:47:31 AM »
I would skip Forno Bravo and get a Four Grand Mere oven from Antoine who sells them and is on this forum.  Also no way 36" will cook 3 pizzas at a time with the logs and fire going inside of it.  I have a 40" and can do 2 and maybe 3 if I pushed it, but it would be really really tight in there.  Just my .02 cents...

Chad

Offline kenafein

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Re: Does anyone have WFO selection advice? Amerigo vs. Forno Bravo Casa2G 90
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2014, 10:03:34 AM »
It would seem to me that going from 1000 to room temperature, whether it's 100 or -40 is where you can really develop the cracks.  Maybe don't run the oven in the winter?  Forno did say they'd replace the cracked floor in this thread(link below).  Most people seemed to think the crack wouldn't be a huge problem anyways.  The Four Grand Mere that csafranek recommends uses smaller bricks, so it's less likely to develop cracks.  The Stoneage Amerigos sure are pretty, but performance is what matters most I suspect. 

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f28/crack-oven-floor-casa-2g90-15744.html

Offline vtsteve

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Re: Does anyone have WFO selection advice? Amerigo vs. Forno Bravo Casa2G 90
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2014, 10:35:23 AM »
Practice saying:  "Honey, I need to make pizza every three days, or the oven might crack."   :-D

With a good door, it'll never reach ambient.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 10:37:54 AM by vtsteve »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Does anyone have WFO selection advice? Amerigo vs. Forno Bravo Casa2G 90
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2014, 10:42:40 AM »
I wouldn't worry about the temperature too much. That it goes from -40 to 100 over the course of the year is inconsequential.  There are others here who know a lot more about this than I do, but I'd bet that if your oven is properly insulated and enclosed, it can take the cold if you can. With respect to cracks like the one in that floor tile, they don't look nice, but they really don't matter. If members stonecutter and Tscarborough don't comment, you might send them a PM asking for their thoughts. They probably know more about this stuff than anyone.

Personally, I would wonder about any contractor that recommends the StoneAge Amerigo or any other vault oven for that matter. Maybe he knows masonry, but I doubt he knows much of anything about pizza. I like the Four Grand Mere 950 oven as well, and the Forno Bravo Premio2G is also not a bad choice.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Does anyone have WFO selection advice? Amerigo vs. Forno Bravo Casa2G 90
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2014, 10:43:30 AM »
Also no way 36" will cook 3 pizzas at a time

Depends on how big (or rather little) the pies are. That being said, 39" is about as small as I would want to go.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline vtsteve

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Re: Does anyone have WFO selection advice? Amerigo vs. Forno Bravo Casa2G 90
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2014, 12:35:35 PM »
We got down to -20 last year... as long as the oven stays *dry*, cold is no problem. Baking weekly, my oven only cooled completely when we went away for two weeks. I'm happy with a 42" (wouldn't go smaller). If you want to make big pies -- less time standing outside in the cold -- a larger oven can have a wider door (mine is 20 1/4" wide). 

Offline lportz

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Re: Does anyone have WFO selection advice? Amerigo vs. Forno Bravo Casa2G 90
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2014, 03:26:44 PM »
Thank you all so much for the input - incredibly useful. 

I did check out the 4GM as well but the price held me back initially.  I'll revisit to see if it might be an option now that my price is going up anyway!  I had a moment of pause about the contractor suggesting the Amerigo as well, and want to see who he is going to have do the masonry work to make sure that the MASON at least has experience with pizza ovens.  Very good tip.

Thanks again - and feel free to keep commenting!  I'd love to hear about your experiences with different makes / models ...

Offline stonecutter

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Re: Does anyone have WFO selection advice? Amerigo vs. Forno Bravo Casa2G 90
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2014, 06:00:02 PM »


My fist step is to figure out just which oven we should get.  We're looking for WFO for an outdoor patio primarily to make Neapolitan pizzas.......

We're also looking at the Forno Bravo 2G90, but I'm worried about whether it can adjust to massive temperature changes that we have in MN (think -40 in winter to 100 in summer at the extremes). .....I want to make sure that we don't spend the money (plus the extra to do the footings, slab and surround) only to have the California-made oven crack in the cold. 

You can make Neapolitan pizza in just about any kind of oven, though higher domed types require oven management not needed with low dome ovens.  Point is, there is a lot of latitude unless you want an oven designed to specialize in Neapolitan pizza. Not that an oven like that can't cook/bake anything else....

Here's the thing about cold weather operation.   The tempurature differential creates tension within the material.  Smaller units can withstand this better than large floor tile.  It is well known within masonry that joints act as expansion/control joints. So if you have an oven with larger floor tile, more care should be taken during heat up....it needs to be taken to operating temps very, very graduallly.  The lower the atmospheric tempurature,  the slower you should heat the oven.  The other factor is moisture.  A weatherproof door or something needs to be in place to keep out rain and snow.   Water is the enemy of all construction, and it's damaging effects are magnified because of the thermal cycling.

Don't let low temps scare you.  Keep out the wet weather and be patient when firing it up.   And if you have an oven with larger floor tile, don't sweat expansion cracks.  Unless they shift out of level ( I don't see that happening ) cracks don't effect the quality or performance at all.
http://oldworldstoneandgarden.com/


When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
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Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Does anyone have WFO selection advice? Amerigo vs. Forno Bravo Casa2G 90
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2014, 10:44:24 PM »
Of course I will stand by my product  ;)

That said for your own satisfaction as a consumer make sure freezing temp are covered by the warranty for the dome and the floor.
We do for the FGM ovens.
Our ovens come with 2 doors, cast iron door and insulated door. This helps ensuring the oven stays nice and dry, which is crucial.
I had a customer who told me he was cooking in blizzard conditions, only issue he reported was his hands freezing to the peel  :-D

As Stonecutter said, if you are in a deep freeze, you want to break out the cold slowly. A small fire the evening before cooking helps. Otherwise do a smaller fire for an hour, then you are good to go.
The quality of the materials does make a difference.

On our ovens the metal fibers in the refractory concrete and the smaller tiles do help prevent any cracking. However on the larger ovens we use larger tiles, 13" by 13" and 2"1/2 thick. Even the ones on the trailers that are exposed to freezing temps don't show any cracking.

Antoine
WFO cooking is about passion.


Offline Dan R Brauchtt

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Re: Does anyone have WFO selection advice? Amerigo vs. Forno Bravo Casa2G 90
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2014, 04:26:16 PM »
I have been working om my own Wood Fired Low Mass pizza oven since last summer. There is a lot to learn. But, make Your main objective to enjoy & bake pizza. My oven can be ready to bake in under 30 minutes ! I call it LICKER-TEE-SPLIT.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/procomfort/sets/72157634639807783/

Offline kenafein

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Re: Does anyone have WFO selection advice? Amerigo vs. Forno Bravo Casa2G 90
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2014, 06:47:21 PM »
I have been working om my own Wood Fired Low Mass pizza oven since last summer. There is a lot to learn. But, make Your main objective to enjoy & bake pizza. My oven can be ready to bake in under 30 minutes ! I call it LICKER-TEE-SPLIT.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/procomfort/sets/72157634639807783/

That's quite a conversation piece.  Very interesting, modern art and metal sculpture, but I'm sure you can appreciate that not everyone would want that in their yard ;).  It's an interesting concept to put into production.  I've seen other ovens where someone buried the barrel in the ground.  Your pizza looks great, but I don't think you can match the results of a dedicated stone oven. 


 

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