Author Topic: In Desperate Need of CHEESE Help (Read 2380 times)

tdub154420 · « **on:** February 09, 2012, 11:56:49 PM »

So I'm in need of some serious help with my cheese. The taste and the texture is just awful. I'm really at my wits end.

My cheese pizza always seems to turn out salty/sour tasting and the cheese just isn't stringy. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong so I'm going to provide a walkthrough of my pizza making and a brief history of my recipes.

My dough is a high flour slightly sweet mixture that cold rises for 24 hours.

My pizza sauce consistently includes pureed canned tomatoes, garlic, e.v. olive oil...different recipes I have included basil, oregano, butter, salt, brown sugar, or onion in different combinations.

Now to the cheese....the cheese has always been centered around a Low Moisture Part Skim Mozzarella. I get a huge 5lb block from Costco but have also tried the Frigo kind. I've tried just using only mozzarella, but have also mixed this mozzarella with Muenster, Provolone, and Romano in different ratios. It always seems to come out salty/sour, not stringy, and oddly perforated with small holes despite the amount I put on.

Now for the walkthrough of how I make it. I shred the cheese, quite finely into smaller pieces.
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/3248/photo53aj.jpg

I then preheat my electric oven to 550 and slide the pizza on to a stone on the top rack and cook it for about 7 minutes.
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/378/photo54nf.jpg

The resulting pizza is perforated cheese that is melted...but not melted. It's quite clumped and stationary. It doesn't slide or string. And I can't tell if its tasting salty, or sour, but its not the way a NY pizza should taste.

Bad Cheese Pic1:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1566/photo56v.jpg

Bad Cheese Pic2:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9285/photo55xm.jpg

I really don't know what I'm doing wrong...maybe it's how I apply my cheese with my sauce...maybe its the type of cheese or just my electric oven....I have tried so much with no success. But here is a photo of one of my favorite local NY Pizzas and what I WANT my pizza to look like:

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9445/photo57q.jpg

If anybody could please help me with this problem I would be extremely grateful!

chickenparm · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2012, 12:29:39 AM »

Do you know what your dough thickness factor is,based on the recipe?

How much cheese are you using(ounces) and for what size pie?

Is this how you want your cheese to melt?

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16485.0;attach=45881;image

tdub154420 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2012, 12:49:03 AM »

Quote from: chickenparm on February 10, 2012, 12:29:39 AM

Do you know what your dough thickness factor is,based on the recipe?

How much cheese are you using(ounces) and for what size pie?

Is this how you want your cheese to melt?

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16485.0;attach=45881;image

I do not know the thickness factor, how would I find out?

And its over half a pound of cheese....so its gotta be around 10 - 12 oz for a 16 in. (a little plus) pie.

And yes, that is pretty close to how I want the cheese to melt. The last picture I posted was a prime example but the picture you posted looks like what I'm looking for as well. Also the dough in the picture your provided looks closer to what I'm trying to achieve too.

dmcavanagh · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2012, 06:48:40 AM »

Two factors to consider are the cheese itself and the fact that you are grating it. The "bad cheese" look, as you call it is more apt to result when using grated cheese, the finer the grate, the more you will get that resulting look. The crater like look is I believe the fat from the cheese actually "boiling" out of the cheese itself. To reduce this, use a courser grate, or use slices of chunks of cheese rather then grated cheese. Different brands of cheese will exhibit this look to different degrees, don't be afraid to sample different ones until you find one you like.

The Dough Doctor · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2012, 08:50:21 AM »

I totally agree, the look of the pizza with the "bad cheese" is more like what we see when using diced cheese. Also, you might be hitting the cheese with too much heat. To correct this, try moving the pizza to a slightly lower position in the oven if you can. Most stores sell a fresh mozzarella cheese in a ball form. Try one of these, but don't grate it, instead, peel it like an orange so you get randon size pieces to place over the top of your pizza, then grate or buy some grated Parmesan cheese and sprinkle about 2-ounces over the top of your regular cheese (be sure to get some on the outer edge too) as this will add more depth to the cheese flavor.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

tdub154420 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2012, 02:24:59 PM »

The way in which I grate makes sense in regards to the look and texture of the cheese, but could this be affecting the flavor too? It really does taste quite salty, maybe even sour-ish i can't tell, (just not good)...is this a byproduct of me essentially boiling the fat completely out of the cheese?

pizzburghr · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2012, 06:49:36 PM »

Would you share your pizza ingredient list and % with us? Keep in mind that sodium in your dough,
sauce, and cheese adds together on your pie. I have tasted, and seen similar situations at many of
our local pizza shops from time to time. If your pizza is sour that is probably your sauce.
These issues are why I am here. Just got tired of eating that kind of pizza.
Personally I think your pizza looks great. It may be just a tad overbaked for my taste.
Dave

Woodfiredovenpizzero · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2012, 07:24:38 PM »

tdub:

I had the same situation when starting making my own pizzas. Now days when using the electric oven the temp. is 500F but put the stone in the lowest rack. Also you can try Bakers Pride Moz from Sam's or just Kraft or Brookfield Moz. I also sprinkle Parmesan, Basil and Oregano.

Good luck in your pizza adventures.

Edgar

scott123 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2012, 05:04:20 AM »

Tdub, real NY pizza shouldn't have stringy cheese. The only time you find stringy cheese is with chain pizza and with chain pizza mascarading as NY pizza. On a classic NY slice, the cheese should boil and the fat should rise to the surface (and drip off the tip).

Now if boiled cheese is not to your liking, then, as others have mentioned, go with a larger grate/dice and/or brown the top of the pizza less.

Another thing to consider is that part skim, on it's own, really has no place on pizza. Imo, it really has no place on pizza as part of a blend either, but you'll find other opinions on that. Fat is flavor.

It'll be a bit salty, but get the whole milk Walmart mozzarella, grate it like you are now and let it brown just as much as you're browning the part skim. You should be a lot happier with it.

Lastly, the consistency/quantity of the sauce goes a long way in dictating how the cheese ends up. More sauce will take longer to boil and will insulate the cheese.

gfgman · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2012, 04:27:55 PM »

Everyone will have their own opinion on cheese. I use sorrento whole milk mozz by the block and do a medium size grate. Some folks may find it to be too mild, but I think it performs well, is not too greasy or strong compared other brands I've tried, and allows a good sauce to shine. I bake at 525, with the stone in the second to lowest position. The cheese usually melts very nicely, like you have pictured. When it does boil heavily, I usually find that my sauce was too wet and it mixed with the cheese and made a soupy mess. The soupy mess is the reason I went back to using a san marzano product. I can use it straight with some oil, and don't have to add any paste. It takes out the guesswork on whether my sauce is thivck enough, and the cheese is much happier.

tdub154420 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2012, 01:09:34 AM »

So I haven't posted in a while on this but I did read everyone's contributions and tried some things and I want to thank everybody for helping me out.

1. Whole Mozzarella is king. I tried whole mozzarella early on in my pizza making adventures and thought I didn't notice a difference....there is a huge difference.

2. Walmart sells 1 lb of Whole Mozz for $3, my local Italian Deli for $6.

3. The longer grade definitely made a difference in the stringiness of the cheese, Whole or Part Skim.

4. My cheese problem is resolved...thank you for everyone who helped me out!

pythonic · « **Reply #11 on:** March 06, 2012, 04:40:24 PM »

Tdub,

Were the 5 lb blocks of cheese you were using from costco the same as their 5 lb preshredded bags?

tdub154420 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 06, 2012, 07:20:38 PM »

It may have been the same kind of cheese, but as I recall preshredded cheese is a little different. i think I read from someone on here that a powdered potato mixture is applied to the shredded cheese so it doesn't clump and stick together in the bag.

JerryMac · « **Reply #13 on:** March 08, 2012, 08:14:49 AM »

Tdub,
I agree with moving your stone to a lower position in the oven. Have you tried a "whole milk low moisture" cheese? I use it and love it.

Mangia Bene

Jerry

Sartanely · « **Reply #14 on:** March 09, 2012, 12:36:15 PM »

I used different mazzarela brands including grande but I found Trader Joe's fresh mazzarela log the best. You just put few chunks of it on pizza and it melts perfectly without burning in 550 oven under the broiler for 1-2 minutes. Try it and you see a difference.

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #15 on:** March 09, 2012, 01:30:46 PM »

tdub,

I also have had bad experiences with Costco cheese, including the Frigo stuff. Sams club carries Stella brand that myself and a lot of others have had pretty good results with....you might want to give that a try too. Glad you got a handle on your bake situation,good job!

Bob

tdub154420 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2012, 02:22:30 AM »

Jerry I have tried the whole milk low moisture and it helps a whole lot, in fact I made my pizza tonight using whole milk mozz and it melted quite nicely

Sartanely when I've tried making a true Neapolitan pie I've tried fresh mozzarella, not the Trader Joe's kind, but I do quite enjoy the moistness of fresh mozz, I may consider using it in conjunction oneday on my NY pies.

Bob I was unaware that Sams Club carried a cheese that'd be that different, I'll have to look into that.

Giggliato · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:38:48 AM »

The fresher the mozzarella, the better the pizza.

But making mozzarella is of course a topic for another forum.

AdamfromPA · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2012, 04:22:23 PM »

Chickenparm, that is a GORGEOUS slice of pizza! It looks very much like what I've been chasing. If you're willing to share anything about your process, I'm all ears!

I'm having the same issue as the starter of this thread. I bake my pizzas at 500 degrees in an electric pizza oven. I cook them directly on the stone. I use a 60-63% water, 1.5% salt, 2% oil, 1% sugar, .25% yeast Lehmann style recipe with 75% whole milk mozzarella and 25% provolone and I have a bubbly, oily mess before the crust is browning. My thickness factor is around .09. The restaurant where I work insists on supplying me with Don Peppino pizza sauce. I'd rather make my own sauce, but that is going to take some strategic convincing.

Adam

pythonic · « **Reply #19 on:** March 20, 2012, 08:43:29 PM »

Adam, do u have your stone on the lowest rack? Also, the fat content in your cheese may be too high. What brand cheeses are you using?