Author Topic: Giordano's Chicago Style Trial 1  (Read 18057 times)

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Offline Jacobus Maximus

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Giordano's Chicago Style Trial 1
« on: August 24, 2005, 12:25:19 AM »
Chicago Style Cracker? I don’t think so.

Sorry for the long post…

The following is my recipe, process (and a few photos to boot) of the “attempt” I made at a Giordano’s Chicago Style Deep Dish Pizza I dubbed “The Capone” (I guess I'll have to elaborate on that name in a follow-up post):

Dough
1.5 C. King Arthur all purpose flour (sifted well with 1.5 Tsp. Vital Wheat Gluten)
1 Tsp. ADY yeast
3/4 Tsp. salt
3/4 Tsp. raw sugar
6 Tsp. oil (3 Extra Virgin Olive, 3 Corn)
6 Tbsp. warm water

First, I sifted all dry ingredients together (the raw sugar was rather large granules, and didn’t go through the screen on my sifter so I just mixed it in with the other dry ingredients by hand.) I proofed the yeast (mixing it with 4 Tsp water @ 100°-according to the instructions in The Joy of Cooking.) First of all, I think using corn oil was a bad idea. Buzz’s recipe calls for “5-5.5 Canola & the rest extra virgin.” I figured it was better to use something like corn oil than all EV. I mixed the two types of oil in a blender along with the “warm” water (in reality, I let the hot water in the faucet run for a little while, filled a small drinking glass and measured 6 Tbsp. into the blender-the water was probably 130°.) I dumped the flour into a mixing bowl, added the yeast and kind of stirred it around a bit, then I dumped in the oil/water mixture and tried to make it “come together as a cohesive ball.” It never really did. I didn’t really knead it per-se, I kind of went through the motions a few times, but it seemed…almost like tough, like the consistency of taffy, or like those pliable, grey art erasers (I think they’re used in charcoal drawing) not like dough should feel. And I only let it rise about 5 hours (though our apartment was quite warm-it was a pretty hot day.)

I think I already know the mistakes I made:
1. I think sifting the flour changes the structure and reaction of it. I think sifting flour when it’s not called for is a no-no, even thought the flour is listed as “pre-sifted” (?)
2. I really can’t say for sure what kind of condition the yeast is in. It looks and reacted like it should. I think I bought a jar of something like Fleishman’s and put it in a small Rubbermaid container with an air-tight-sealing lid and have kept it in the freezer since (we’re talking several years, but according to Joy “if kept in airtight containers in the freezer, it will last indefinitely” so I don’t really think there’s a problem there.)
3. I used Morton’s Iodized salt (as opposed to Kosher/sea) I don’t know if that makes a difference.)
4. I think since the sugar was in larger granules (which means it was more spread out/not as incorporated into the dough) the yeast had less to feed on?
5. Corn oil-bad idea. I think I will be picking up some canola or extra light virgin. And blending things like I did probably wasn’t a smart move either. (Leave oil and water separate as God intended.) And come to think of it, I don't remember if I measured Tbsp or Tsp-obviously there would be a big difference.
6. The warm water oops was more of an after thought-I knew the water I used to proof the yeast shouldn’t be more than about 120, but it didn’t even occur to me that the water I used in making the dough could be too hot.
7. I think I should have followed the recommended 2-minute kneading no matter what I thought of the “dough ball.”

So what IS the best way to mix/blend these ingredients by hand? It seems that if I put the oil, water and proofed yeast in a mixing bowl and added a little flour at a time until I got a dough ball of the correct consistency, that would be the right way to go about it. What kills me is that I’ve made quiller quiches (several years ago, but still.) I made the most absolutely perfect flakey pie crust for them (and again, probably using a different recipe.) What am I doing wrong (if I haven’t figured it out already…)


Offline Jacobus Maximus

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Re: Giordano's Chicago Style Trial 1
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2005, 12:26:04 AM »
Follow-up post:

Cheese-
I used a Sargento Italian Mix of Mozz, Fontina, Romano, Parm, Asiago and Provalone. 1.5 C on the bottom and .5 C sprinkled on top of the sauce.

Filling
1 C Italian sausage (store brand, basically Kroeger/Fred Meyer)
Fioucci Italian deli meats-Pancetta, Proscuitto & Genoa Salami
1/2 C ea. chopped-green bell pepper, black olives, Crimini mushrooms, red onion.

Sauce
1 can (28 oz.) 6-In-1 All Purpose Ground Tomatoes in Puree (I ordered from Escalon’s website-$10.74 incl. shipping for three cans, which is the smallest quantity they sell. I cannot stress the greatness of this convenience and inexpense if you can’t find locally. Next time I’m ordering 9 cans.)
1 Tsp. roasted minced garlic (the kind that comes in a jar- 1 Tsp. = 2 cloves.)
1 Tsp. dark brown sugar
3/4 Tsp. salt (again, Umbrella Girl’s)
2 Tbsp “pizza seasoning”*
*my own concoction of equal parts (1 Tbsp. ea.) dried Basil & Oregano; equal parts (1 Tsp. ea.) Sage (I could only find rubbed, otherwise I would have gone with 1 Tbsp of it too) Thyme, Rosemary, crushed fennel, Savory, Marjoram, minced onion, and fresh ground black pepper)
1/2 Tsp. crushed red pepper flakes (I would consider bumping this up to 3/4 or 1 Tsp. but I don’t know yet)
I wanted to sauté the sauce a little, but I sort of ended up over-doing it (I let it simmer for 1.5 or 2 hrs. which caused all the liquid to evaporate and left me with chunks, which was great, but…I don’t know. I’m gonna try something different next time.)

Anyway…

Offline buzz

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Re: Giordano's Chicago Style Trial 1
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2005, 09:22:27 AM »
Hmmm...you should probably use my amended recipe for this deep dish:

2 cups KA AP
1 heaping TSP yeast
.50 cup, plus 2 TBS water
1 TSP sugar
.50 TSP sea salt
6 TBS oil (5 canola, 1 extra light olive oil)

Kneaded by hand for one minute, then let rise for 8 hours at room temperature. Then streched it out by hand this time, folded it in quarters. let the dough rest, then repeated folding. let it rest again, then pressed it by hand into 9.5" pan. Added .50 pound Sorrento mozzarella, and 6-in-1-based sauce. Cooked for 40 minutes in preheated 450 degree oven.

You don't need to add gluten--it will just togh up the dough--cut back on yeast a little for 1.5 cups flour--.75 TSP table salt is too much (Kosher salt has bigger flakes, so is less salty than table salt, so use .50 TSP)--use regular sugar--use canola oil (no taste) and extra light olive oil (extra virgin is too strong). I proof the yeast with a little sugar in the warm water, then dump it into the flour with the oil. It should come together right away. Add more water if necessary (depending on the state of the flour--with all that gluten added, it sounds like you needed more water to make your attempt work!).

Knead 2 minutes--when you add the water and oil, mix with a spoon--it should all come together right away. then dump it on a kneading surface and knead (once again, adding more water if necessary).

Hope this helps!


Offline Snowman

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Re: Giordano's Chicago Style Trial 1
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2005, 06:35:18 PM »
Hang on... is that deep dish or STUFFED?  If it's just normal deep dish (no top crust), something's incredibly wrong with the cheese.  The sauce is scorched but it's the fact that the cheese isn't IN the toppings that seems to be bugging me.  Even if you put the cheese on the bottom (which I don't see), you've got a definite seperation between the toppings and the sauce. 

What's up? 

If it's stuffed, you've done well... I wish my top crust held up like that. 

Offline Jacobus Maximus

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Re: Giordano's Chicago Style Trial 1
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2005, 10:34:25 PM »
Thanks guys!

Buzz-
Honestly, I was hoping you would respond. I know you’ve worked long and hard on this recipe and I really appreciate you willing to help a lost newbie like me get it right.

If my memory serves me, the recipe in your response sounds like one I read from you on another Chicago thread (I don’t remember which one, though) and I believe there were some pictures involved and if so-that’s exactly what I’m going for. A somewhat thicker crust (it looks to be about 5/8-3/4 in. thick judging by the photos). I think spreading it out by hand will be better too (I’ve never really liked rolling pins anyway.) I have a Sassafras stone baking dish that I bake in-it measures approx. 9.5 in. on the bottom of the dish, about 10.5 on the top and is about 1 3/8 in. deep (I measured and it easily holds 6 C.) I take it you usually make cheese pizzas when you go Chicago? Personally I like a little meat and a little veggies, but I’ll try a cheese (I really do like Sargento cheese-I’ll probably use the Italian 6 Cheese Blend again, though the last time I was at the store, all I could find was the Kroger brand of the same mix. I’m taste-testing them side-by-side and if I didn’t know, I’d think they’re identical.)

-I just realized something: you’re saying SORRento and I was thinking SARGento…I just looked on their respective websites…They almost look to be the same product packaged with different names (like Hellman’s and Best Foods) but I really don’t think that’s the case. Hmm…I’m gonna have to check this out.

Snowman-
No, it’s not stuffed in the sense that it has a top crust. That crust is the sauce. What I did was I laid down a layer of cheese on the bare crust shell, put a layer of Prosciutto over that (my intent was to mix the Prosciutto in with the rest of the filling, but I was running out of time) then I dumped in the filling mix of chopped Crimini mushrooms, bell pepper, red onion and pre-cooked Italian sausage. After that I made a layer of Genoa salami (I thought I took a pic of that, but I didn’t) and on top of that I poured the sauce, then sprinkled the top with cheese (which ended up getting a little charred and looking like more of a crust.) The layer of Salami acted like a top crust, though. I know, I went into too much detail about some things and left others out completely…

Well, I look forward to trying this once again. Thanks again for the advice and keep and eye out for “Giordano’s Chicago Style Trial 2.”

Offline buzz

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Re: Giordano's Chicago Style Trial 1
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2005, 09:06:35 AM »
I live in Chicago, so I ave access to all these places!

I like plain cheese deep dish--I use Sorrento mozzarella for its texture and tase. Stella is very good, too. I'm not personally a fan of Sargento, but everybody's different!

Pressing it by hand is normal--in trying to duplicate Giordano's recipe, I use a rolling pin, because they sheet their deep dish dough.

Try another one!

Offline Snowman

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Re: Giordano's Chicago Style Trial 1
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2005, 09:12:24 PM »
Pressing it by hand is normal--in trying to duplicate Giordano's recipe, I use a rolling pin, because they sheet their deep dish dough.

A tip on that is to make the dough larger than the pan, overhanging the edge all the way around.  Then run your rolling pin over the top of the pan cutting off the extra dough.  It makes the results look more "industrial" than home-made -- IF that's what you're trying to achieve. 


 

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