Don't get the sour taste

[nariman]

Hi,
I use my own poolish to make the pizza dough (60% hydration). For the poolish: 100 gram flour, 100 gram water and 1 gram IDY, and 8-10 hours in the room temprature. When I make the dough, the poolish is active and ready. The final dough has 500 gram flour, 300 gram water, 12 gram salt and 1 gram IDY (from the poolish). BUT still I don't get any sour taste after 5-6 hours rising the final dough and balls. Any suggestions?
Thanks, Nariman   

[Bill/SFNM]

The main source of "sourness" in doughs would be symbiotic bacteria (lactobacilli) which would NOT be present in any significant numbers in a mixture of just flour, water, and IDY. Given enough time under the right conditions, you could get a sourdough culture, But 5-6 hours isn't going to do it.

 

[nariman]

Bill,
Could you please describe a little more those right conditions? You mean for the poolish or for the main dough? Do I need other ingredients to produce the sourness?
Thanks,
Nariman   

[Bill/SFNM]

I think you may be on the wrong track if you are expecting a poolish-type preferment to produce much sourness, if any. All of my experience is in using sourdough cultures. These can take a few weeks to start. You can also buy sourdough cultures. But either way, these are not one-time preparations. The result is a more complex and nuanced layering of flavors - not just sour. It is how I make all my breads and pizzas.

You could add acid in the form of vinegar (liquid or powdered) directly to the dough - a method employed in some mass-produced sourdough breads.

Perhaps others here have more experience with other additives.  

[TXCraig1]

Nariman,
As Bill noted, you really need a sourdough culture if you want to develop a natural sour flavor. I don't think vinegar will get you where you want to be. It can make your bread smell and taste acidic of course, however Lactic acid is probably an important component in the flavor and aroma that you are looking for (and about 70-80% of the acid produced by the lactocacilli in a typical sourdough culture). Vinegar is not going to give you an "artisan" flavor. If the "artisan" sourdough flavor is the sort of flavor you want, there are no additives that are going to let you shortcut the process nor will a culture based on bakers yeast (IDY, ADY, CY) ever get you there no matter how long you let it ferment.

You can catch, beg, or buy a sourdough culture fairly easily. www.sourdo.com is one place to get them. Even with a bona fide culture, 5-6 hours probably won't get you much, if any, sour flavor. It can take up to several days. One way to speed things up is with temperature management as I discussed here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14627.0.html Still, time is your friend if you want sour.

Craig

[nariman]

Thank you all. You all are right: the right way is making a starter. A friend of mine has actually Italian cultures (bought at sourdo.com), and I can get one package from him, just enough to make a starter for home baking.
Craig, I will look at your post.
Thanks again and I can't promis not coming with more questions
Nariman