Author Topic: High gluten flour for cracker crust?  (Read 3177 times)

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Offline pythonic

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High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« on: February 12, 2012, 12:33:55 AM »
Can someone pls explain why high gluten flour would be a good choice for (pardon my french) chit on a shingle.  I thought high gluten dough was for light and airy and massively tall crusts?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 01:57:16 AM by pythonic »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2012, 02:26:02 PM »
pythonic,

I would say that two of the reasons are that the high-gluten flour, because of its relatively high protein content, will yield a dough and crust with more color and flavor. And since the dough will usually be run through a roller or sheeter, the better gas production from using the high-gluten flour will not mean much since the gases in the dough will be forced out when the dough is run through the sheeter or roller.

The cracker style pizza can be made using all-purpose flour, bread flour or high-gluten flour. I found that bread flour was a good compromise from the standpoint of crust color and flavor. My favorite bread flour for the cracker style was Better for Bread flour (formerly called Harvest King flour).

Peter

Offline pythonic

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2012, 07:05:58 PM »
Thanks for the great insight as usual peter.  Can u please point me in the direction of some good bread flour recipes for a cracker crust pizza?
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2012, 07:58:11 PM »
Can u please point me in the direction of some good bread flour recipes for a cracker crust pizza?


pythonic,

One of the most popular cracker style dough recipes on the forum is the one at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizzainnstyle.php. I played around with that recipe, along with a few other members, in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5762.0.html. Another way to find good cracker style dough recipes is to scan the Cracker style board at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/board,28.0.html and look for the threads with a lot of page views. A good example would be this one: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,105.0.html. And, this one also: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,779.msg6826.html#msg6826.

Other members might chime in with their favorite cracker style dough recipes.

Peter

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2012, 06:58:50 PM »
Pythonic:

I don't use high-gluten flour for my cracker crust recipes, but at Petezza's suggestion, I thought I would share a couple recipes that I have been using more recently.

For one 14" pizza,  0.075" thick, 4% bowel residue:
Flour (100%):  218.77 g / 7.72 oz
Water (44%):    96.26 g / 3.4 oz
IDY (1.5%):        3.28 g / 0.12 oz / 1.09 tsp
Salt (1.5%):       3.28 g /  0.12 oz / 0.68 tsp
Vegetable oil (1.8%):  3.94 g / 0.14 oz / 0.87 tsp
Sugar (1.4%):    3.06 g / 0.11 oz / 0.77 tsp
Baker's Non-fat Dry Milk (2.5%):  5.47 g / 0.19 oz / 1.4 tsp
Dough Relaxer (1.8%):  3.94 g / 0.14 oz / 0.76 tsp (I use Prepared Pantry brand)
Dough Conditioner (1.1%): 2.41 g / 0.08 oz / 1.02 tsp (Prepared Pantry)
Total (155.6%):  340.4 g / 12.01 oz / 0.75 lbs

For one 14" pizza, 0.075" thickness factor, 5% bowel residue:
Flour (100%):  231.43 g / 8.16 oz
Water (42%):    97.2 g  /  3.43 oz
IDY (1%):           2.31 g / 0.08 oz / 0.77 tsp
Salt (1.5%):       3.47 g / 0.12 oz / 0.72 tsp
Sugar (2%):       4.63 g / 0.16 oz / 1.16 tsp
Shortening (2%):4.63 g / 0.16 oz / 1.16 tsp
Dough Relaxer (1%): 2.15 g / 0.08 oz / 0.41 tsp
Dough Conditioner (1.5%): 3.23 g / 0.11 oz / 1.37 tsp
Total (148.5%): 343.68 g / 12.12 oz / 0.76 lbs

I use King Arthur all-purpose flour for making both of these pizzas.  I have tried using a hydration of <42% but it is very difficult for me to roll out that low of a hydrated dough by hand, so I have compromised and gone with no less than 42%.  You could try bread flour, as Petezza has suggested (I also use Gold Medal Better for Bread as he does for some of my recipes), but keep in mind that a higher gluten protein content of the flour will absorb more of the water in the dough, thereby giving a drier dough.

The dough relaxers and conditioners are not necessary for these doughs, but since I generally have created my cracker or American style recipes based off of clones from commercial pizza restaurants, I have gone to using them just to try and mimic what is done in the commercial setting.

I generally use a food processor (Quisinart) with a dough blade for making these types of doughs, then bag up the dough in an old plastic bread bag and toss it in the refrigerator for at least 24 hours.

Good luck and keep us posted.

-ME
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 07:02:20 PM by Mad_Ernie »
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 07:00:57 PM »
Here are some pics of pizzas I've made using the first recipe I listed above:

« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 07:11:25 PM by Mad_Ernie »
Let them eat pizza.

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2012, 05:38:19 PM »
ME, Can you really feel the difference in the dough using such a little amount of relaxer and conditioner? I too have come to the conclusion that commercial premixes contain more in them than just the flour typically listed on the bag.

Offline JimmyJazz

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2012, 12:09:44 AM »
Ernie,

That second pic has me drooling... That beef/sausage meat looks sooooo tasty... Nice Pic!

Offline Don K

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2012, 12:58:11 AM »
For one 14" pizza, 0.075" thickness factor, 5% bowel residue:
5% bowel residue? :-\ Sounds kind of gross.
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2012, 12:15:25 PM »
                Yeah,even the one that only uses 4% would still be waaay too much!!   :-D

Bob                     
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Offline BTB

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2012, 01:48:38 PM »
ME, great looking pizzas.  Nice job.  I want some.  Disregard the other thoughts about the proportion of bowl residue.  Your's is positively right in the ball park.  Don't they know that we peel away excess dough if we feel its too much?  I have a pan like yours that I don't use much, but I'll have to try it some more.  Again, great looking pizzas.

Pythonic, for crispy thin crusts, I prefer KA Bread Flour, but have often used KAAP instead and it still turned out great.  But Peter's suggestion on the General Mills brand is super great, too.

                                                                                          --BTB

Offline Don K

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2012, 02:13:52 PM »
Disregard the other thoughts about the proportion of bowl residue.  Your's is positively right in the ball park.  Don't they know that we peel away excess dough if we feel its too much?
Um, I don't mean to be anal about this :P, but we were just making light of the fact that he said "bowel residue" instead of "bowl residue." I think that everyone would agree that any amount of bowel residue is too much!
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 02:16:19 PM by Colonel_Klink »
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Offline BTB

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2012, 03:11:10 PM »
You're right.  I didn't see it.  My bad.  Reacted too quickly.  Let's continue to make some great, great pizzas here on this site.  But ME's pizza pictures still looked FANTASTIC! ! !

                                                                     --BTB

Offline Don K

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2012, 03:30:10 PM »
But ME's pizza pictures still looked FANTASTIC! ! !
Indeed!
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Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2012, 09:10:34 PM »
ME, Can you really feel the difference in the dough using such a little amount of relaxer and conditioner? I too have come to the conclusion that commercial premixes contain more in them than just the flour typically listed on the bag.

I think they do make some difference, but not a huge difference.  It's hard to describe.  Having worked with these types of doughs, I know you'll appreciate it when I say that it's as much about the personal feel as anything else.  Sort of like a surgeon working on a patient or a mechanic working on a car.  The "feel" when working dough is very important, but you can't explain it, you have to just do it.  It comes with experience.
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2012, 09:11:01 PM »
Um, I don't mean to be anal about this :P, but we were just making light of the fact that he said "bowel residue" instead of "bowl residue." I think that everyone would agree that any amount of bowel residue is too much!

You got me!  :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2012, 09:16:16 PM »
ME, great looking pizzas.  Nice job.  I want some.  Disregard the other thoughts about the proportion of bowl residue.  Your's is positively right in the ball park.  Don't they know that we peel away excess dough if we feel its too much?  I have a pan like yours that I don't use much, but I'll have to try it some more.  Again, great looking pizzas.
                                                              --BTB

Thank you very much, BTB.  I regard your own accomplishments quite highly.  In fact, I will be making a deep dish pizza this weekend with a recipe closely based on one of yours.  ;)

I use the higher bowl residue percentage (got it right this time) because it becomes easier when trying to roll out a 14" round dough disk to make sure you have enough dough to work with.  Also, as BTB has alluded to, it gives you extra scraps of dough after you have cut out your disk from the rolled out dough (I use a 14" pizza screen as a template to cut out the disk).  Scraps are important if you have a 4-year old who likes to be involved in whatever you are doing and wants to help.  To her, taking those scraps, cutting out shapes, saucing and cheesing them, is about as good as it gets.  :)

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2012, 09:20:58 PM »
Ernie,

That second pic has me drooling... That beef/sausage meat looks sooooo tasty... Nice Pic!


Thanks, JimmyJack.  It is Italian sausage.  We have 2 excellent local producers of Italian sausage in the Kansas City area, just like I remember from my childhood days in Illinois and Wisconsin.  In that part of the country, it tends to be sausage, not pepperoni, that is the number 1 topping for pizzas.

Mendola's:  http://mendoliasausage.com/about.html

and

Scimeca's:  http://www.scimecassausage.com/

Both are equally good and can be found in most any local grocery store. 

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2012, 09:23:24 PM »
Indeed!

Thanks, Colonel.  Hey, I remember when Vito Scotti used to guest star on the old Hogan's Heroes as an Italian officer working as a double-agent against the Germans.  He always wanted to eat pizza, and Klink always wanted to feed him sauerbraten.  :-D
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Don K

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Re: High gluten flour for cracker crust?
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2012, 09:55:59 PM »
Yes...Major Bonacelli...

<a href="http://youtu.be/nKoxh-nHK84" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://youtu.be/nKoxh-nHK84</a>


Scotti was such a great character actor. He could play just about anybody.
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