Author Topic: NY-Style on a Steel Plate  (Read 956 times)

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Offline Bill/SFNM

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NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« on: February 21, 2012, 05:26:31 PM »
I've decided to see how well I can bake a NY-style pie with a recently acquired steel plate. I got an ugly old piece of 3/8" thick steel from the metal yard, cut it down to the size of my 3/4" fibrament stone, sanded off all the corrosion, seasoned it, and placed it in the oven on top of the stone on the bottom rack. Heated the oven up to 550F in "stone mode" in which the fans turn on and off at regular intervals.

Like scott123 states in this recent post:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17854.msg172981.html#msg172981

I am a fan of puffy/soft crust. This pizza used only sourdough starter for leavening. This particular starter, the Russian from sourdo.com, is an extremely powerful leavener. Next time I'll use a little less and also go for a thinner crust. And less cheese. Otherwise, this was just the way I like my NY pizza. I know that starter cultures are far from the norm for this style, but I love it!

Offline communist

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 06:40:56 PM »
Nice pie Bill!  I, too, have been putting my 1/2 steel plate on top of a stone because I already have a stone, and I believe it gives me a heat resevoir when baking mutliple pies - I assume my steel reheats quickly because of the stone right below.   Mark

Offline David Deas

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 06:54:52 PM »
Far from the norm, indeed.  Nevertheless, that is a really good looking pure large w/extra cheese.  Impressive coming out of a home oven.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 06:58:00 PM by David Deas »

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 07:06:33 PM »
Nice pie Bill!  I, too, have been putting my 1/2 steel plate on top of a stone because I already have a stone, and I believe it gives me a heat resevoir when baking mutliple pies - I assume my steel reheats quickly because of the stone right below.   Mark

Thanks, Mark. That was my thinking about the stone/steel combo. Anyway, that 3/8" sucker weighs a ton. I'm thinking of keeping both of them permanently in the oven, if only to save my back.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 07:07:19 PM »
Far from the norm, indeed.  Nevertheless, that is a really good looking pure large w/extra cheese.  Impressive coming out of a home oven.
Thanks, David. Norm and I haven't been on speaking terms for years.

Online scott123

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 08:39:40 PM »
Alright, Bill- taking the steel plate plunge!  ;D

I've given quite a lot of consideration to stacking steel plate with other stones (or other pieces of steel), but was concerned that the stone wouldn't sit perfectly flat on the other and any air gaps might prevent heat from flowing evenly from the bottom to the top stone. I've even spent some time researching materials that would work as thermal compound to help bridge any thermal divides.

How was the coloration on your undercrust?  Was it even?  If it was, it looks like you've answered my stone stacking question.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 08:41:45 PM by scott123 »

Online TXCraig1

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 09:29:59 PM »
Bill, what was the bake time on that pie?
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 09:45:40 PM »
How was the coloration on your undercrust?  Was it even?  If it was, it looks like you've answered my stone stacking question.
scott123,

Bottom of crust was well-browned with some dark spots. This was multi-day sourdough; it's going to bake differently than the typical NY formulation.

I'll take a photo of the bottom next time.  
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 09:49:26 PM by Bill/SFNM »

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 09:48:40 PM »
Bill, what was the bake time on that pie?

Craig,

Honestly I have no idea. I was sitting on the kitchen floor (wish I has an eye-level oven), completely mesmerized. It was a interesting departure from tending a pie in the WFO. I'll try to measure the time next batch.

parallei

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 10:08:55 PM »
Bill, Broiler?

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 10:11:42 PM »

parallei

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 10:17:32 PM »
Molto buona.

I need to get my 15 year old Viking oven tuned up or something.  550 on the knob gives me like 425 with the IR gun and other devices.  What kind of oven are you using in the kitchen, and are you happy with it?

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 10:19:52 PM »
Molto buona.

I need to get my 15 year old Viking oven tuned up or something.  550 on the knob gives me like 425 with the IR gun and other devices.  What kind of oven are you using in the kitchen, and are you happy with it?

Wolfe dual-fuel range. Extremely happy with it. Gas burners on the stove, self-cleaning electric on the bottom.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 10:27:57 PM by Bill/SFNM »

parallei

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 10:26:29 PM »
Yeah, my Viking is dual fuel also.  I dread having the "official" "repair" person over.  The last one my wife booted out of the house because she was convinced he was stoned, not scary, just not quite paying enough attention.    I wish someone would make a home oven that did an honest 750 and had steam.....

Online TXCraig1

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 10:48:08 PM »
Wolfe? Is that the French model?  :-D
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 11:29:16 PM »
If I may be permitted a bit of a rant here about baking in the kitchen oven...

Unless we are fortunate enough to own an oven specifically designed to produce perfectly-baked pizzas, we are forced into some degree of cheating. When baking in my WFO, I often cheat by doming the pie to make sure the top is properly cooked at the same time the bottom is done. When baking bread, I use a steam cleaning contraption to inject steam into the oven. We use stones, steel plates, broilers, disabling the self-cleaning interlock, all manner of things to compensate for the shortcomings of our ovens.

I'm willing to do whatever it takes to achieve the pizzas I love. Heck, look at what Pizza Napoletana has done to his lowly kitchen oven to produce world-class pizzas. Maybe you don't like the word "cheat". I don't use it here in the pejorative. Call it whatever you like: adjustment, accommodation, creative modification, etc.  

I find it amazing that people don't use more cheats. In particular, I see how much effort we put into getting a great looking pizza. Great looking doesn't equate to great tasting. The nature of pizza, its non-uniform, irregular shape makes it so challenging to get just right the heat distribution to get all parts of the pizza done at the same time. So often I see that by the time the top of the pizza looks perfectly baked, the bottom is burnt and interior of the crust is overcooked to a dry texture devoid of life.

My cheat to solve this problem is something I have never seen discussed here; perhaps I have missed it. The hardest part of the unbalanced heat dilemma is getting the interior of the crust done just right. So that is where I focus my attention. I prefer high hydration dough that likes an immediate blast of heat. Stone -good. Steel plate - better. Both - best? Maybe. The moment I sense the interior is done, the pizza comes out of the oven - maybe even a bit before since it will continue baking. If there are toppings that are not cooked or cheese not melted or the outside of the rim could use more color, I simply hit those spots with a butane torch. Takes a few seconds and I have complete control over exactly what gets get hit - unlike a broiler which covers the whole pizza.

So how do we know when the inside is perfectly baked? There are too many variables to make time an accurate measure. If it were a hunk of meat, we could use a meat thermometer. If it were a cake, we could we could use a toothpick. In baking this pizza, I used a cheat that I am not ready to discuss. Not sure how consistent it will be. Stay tuned.

End of rant.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 11:31:14 PM by Bill/SFNM »

parallei

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2012, 12:10:16 AM »
Rant on.  ;D

Done the stone, doing the steel, thought of a torch (hey, they're used in cooking all the time) but I gotta admit it seemed a bit like "cheating" somehow.  And it certainly isn't.

I guess it would't be cheating unless one posted all their methods and oven setups and then failed to say "Oh by the way, I took a torch to it at the end...".  That might leave someone trying to achieve something that wasn't really possible.

Hope you'll discuss the "cheat" you used on the pie you posted above.  It looks great,and I'm sure it tasted great too.

As an aside, I can see a good "Monthly Challenge" here someplace.......
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 12:26:34 AM by parallei »

Online TXCraig1

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Re: NY-Style on a Steel Plate
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2012, 01:41:22 AM »
Unless we are fortunate enough to own an oven specifically designed to produce perfectly-baked pizzas, we are forced into some degree of cheating. When baking in my WFO, I often cheat by doming the pie to make sure the top is properly cooked at the same time the bottom is done… Maybe you don't like the word "cheat". I don't use it here in the pejorative. Call it whatever you like: adjustment, accommodation, creative modification, etc.  


I would respectfully disagree that doming a pizza is “cheating” regardless of how you characterize the word. That is no different that saying that simply turning the pie in the oven is cheating.  As you noted, pizza is non-uniform, and giving individual attention to every pie is part of the art and no different than a sculptor approaching each piece of marble differently based on its unique characteristics. Is he cheating by using different chisels or starting different sculptures in different places?

Quote
I find it amazing that people don't use more cheats. In particular, I see how much effort we put into getting a great looking pizza. Great looking doesn't equate to great tasting. The nature of pizza, its non-uniform, irregular shape makes it so challenging to get just right the heat distribution to get all parts of the pizza done at the same time. So often I see that by the time the top of the pizza looks perfectly baked, the bottom is burnt and interior of the crust is overcooked to a dry texture devoid of life.


I wonder if you are missing some of the “cheats” because not everyone thinks in the same way you do. My observation is that you and I think differently and approach problems in different ways for example. I would describe your general approach to problem solving as “micro-level” – addressing the different aspects if the problem individually to arrive at an optimum solution. I see it across your wide breadth of cooking – from sous vide to the torched pizza.

On the other hand, I would characterize my approach and Omid’s as you noted above, as a more “macro-level” solution – engineering a device to deliver the desired outcome in one step. Case in point: what I did with my grill in an attempt to simulate a WFO:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9614.0.html
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10237.0.html
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12371.0.html
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13475.0.html

I think the micro-level approach is probably less common – another reason why I suspect it may appear to you that people are not using as many “cheats” as they may actually be. This is probably because it is more technically complex, and I greatly admire and respect your creativity and the attention to detail you employ in its pursuit.  

Conversely, doing things in the “traditional” way (as I perceive it anyway) is in my blood – probably to the point of being a fault.  I’m not going to put a rack of lamb in a bag and put it in a thermal immersion circulator before finishing it in my WFO. I’m going to simply grill over an open flame.  I’m also not going to put a torch on my pizza – doesn’t mean I think there is anything wrong with it – it’s just not what makes me happy. Candidly speaking, I doubt I’ll ever bake another pizza in my kitchen oven. I’m right with you in that I'm willing to do whatever it takes to achieve the pizzas I love, and for me that isn’t going to happen in a kitchen oven – period. That’s why my “kitchen oven cheats” happened on the BBQ and not the thing in my kitchen. My first cheat was to not use my kitchen oven to bake pizza.

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So often I see that by the time the top of the pizza looks perfectly baked, the bottom is burnt and interior of the crust is overcooked to a dry texture devoid of life... My cheat to solve this problem is something I have never seen discussed here; perhaps I have missed it.

If it is the torch you are referring to:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg164922.html#msg164922
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16117.msg170333.html#msg170333
Searching for these posts, I saw a half dozen or so more. One even worded it almost the same as you did saying the torch “allows me absolute control.” http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5588.msg47324.html#msg47324

The cheaters are out there…  :-D

CL
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 01:50:12 AM by TXCraig1 »
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.


 



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