DID THESE OUTSTANDING PIZZERIAS MAKE OR BUY THEIR WFO?

[gabaghool]

Hi
Trying to make a list of different type ovens, pros and cons.  For a deck oven, its pretty much neck to neck between Marsals MB60 and BP superdeck electric.  There are a ton of ovens out there, many being able to reach high temps, but.....service and reliability is a huge thing and I get a bit nervous.

Now, IF, WFO are going to be in my future, I need to start learning more about them.  I've worked with them in a few professional settings, 1 all wood, and 2 with gas backup, and I've also built one from scratch using Alan Scotts oven plans.  I need to start looking at wfo being used today, by top of the line pizzerias that DON'T specialize in NEO pizza, but hybrid pies. I need to know whether or not these following pizza places BUILT their own or had them built or bought them from a company who specializes in WFO.  Now, Ive read the hotly contested threads about NEO pies only being properly baked in an oven built by craftsman from ITaly with a low dome, etc, etc....but again, thats NOT what Im after.  Basically I want a hybrid NH/NY style pizza.  I need an oven that can facilitate that.  It may be a deck oven or it may be a wood oven.  Here's three places that I would like to know how they got their ovens.

Bianco's-  the most NEO of my choices.  

Toby's public house....interesting oven. pies look a lot like Chau's

Lucali's-  a wood fired version of DiFara's....Slice says he built it himself, I heard he bought it from a closed down pizzeria....so I think it may be a woodstone or earthstone.

Barbarella- an old poster here, Tdeane, was going from oven to oven trying to figure out what would best suit him.  He finally bought one, anyone know what kind?

ANd, of course, if theres anyone else you think I should look at, please let me know.  Scot once wrote about a place that THOUGHT they wanted NEO, decided they didn't want NEO, and even though they had the ovens custom built FOR neo, they switched to a hybrid pie, started with a V i beleive, in NJ.....

Well, thank you once again for any help.

[scott123]

Terry Dean (Tdeane), went with the Woodstone.  I noticed in the Barbarella thread that he picked up a fork mixer.  So far, no photos of his pizzas, so it'll be interesting to see how Neo-y he ends up going.

Vesta is the place in NJ.  The owner recently joined the forum.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16044.0.html

but hasn't posted much.  From what member JConk007 has said about him, he seems like a nice guy.  Out of your entire list, I think the demographic he's dealing with (close to an urban area, but still suburban, lot's of pizza places, but not that many WFOs) would be the closest to yours. You might want to give him a call. I think you'd be far enough away to not pose a threat to his business.

We haven't broached this subject yet, but, after looking at pizzerias in my area recently, I noticed there were a few WFO places.  I think it might be worth mentioning, that, thanks to some WFO joints that run their ovens low and/or don't know how to use them, the public may not respond as favorably to the WFO branding as you might think.

[BrickStoneOven]

I believe that Chris Bianco's oven is a Renato http://www.renatos.com/brick.htm.

Another thing about Vesta is that even though he got Neapolitan ovens(SF) he isn't doing a Neapolitan pizza. They look like something you are aiming for.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKoh4Z43lgI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKoh4Z43lgI</a>

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13585.0.html

[gabaghool]

Scott!!!!  No!!!!  You?......pushing for decks???   I can't believe it!!!

I gotta tell you a secret....YOU and your INFO is the only thing still keeping looking at decks......ALWAYS listen to someone who knows more than you......THATS never done me wrong before........

[scott123]

What? Me? Decks?

Seriously, though, although we had talked earlier about the inherent romance of wood, I wasn't really looking at the bigger picture.  Neapolitan wood ovens have an incredible mystique and novelty. Also, we have members here who do unbelievable things with non Neapolitan ovens.

That being said, I can't speak for your area, but, where I am (Northern NJ), we have a bunch of places that, if they aren't giving WFOs a bad name, they're definitely not giving them a good name either.  I also keep thinking of one or two WFO youtube videos using earthstones that make me cringe.

Neapolitan ovens - moi sexy
non Neapolitan ovens here - moi sexy
non Neapolitan ovens in the hands of Joe Public- frequently not very sexy.

and, while I see local Neapolitan pizzerias in the newspaper all the time, I don't see non Neapolitan places much.

So, it's not purely WFO bashing, just more recent revelations for the con column

And while it's kind of you to value my opinion, the fact that you're asking about wood means that you're most likely leaning towards wood.  And that's perfectly fine.  With your insatiable curiosity and your passion, I have no doubt you're destined for awards, regardless of which oven you go with- and I'll be cheering you on no matter what.

[Tscarborough]

My Uncle has a $50,000 dollar Italian built Neapolitan oven in his restaurant (It is an Italian restaurant with an oven, not a pizzeria).  He runs it at 450 degrees Fahrenheit and makes an excellent pizza.  He has no desire to do Neapolitan, although he could.  He spends a lot of time in Italy and has been cooking commercial pizza for 40 years.  He makes good pizza the way he wants to.  <Shrug>.

[BrickStoneOven]

My Uncle has a $50,000 dollar Italian built Neapolitan oven in his restaurant

Don't mean to come off rude or like a jerk but it sounds like he got ripped off.

[Tscarborough]

Nah, the guy who thought he could make and sell neo pies in Louisiana got ripped off, my Uncle got it for a song.

[gabaghool]

Scott
Believe it or not.....Im NOT leaning one way or another.  The restaurant world revolves in trends.  Really new ideas usually are hot....and they fizzle out.  Real, solid restaurant trends are USUALLY recylced old news that people have come to take for granted.  Like burger, now.  They are really hot becasue people FORGOT that at one time burgers were juicy and griddled and buttured and fresh ground.....they are not being introduced to anything NEW, just rewrapped.  Its not a coincidence either that A PLAIN OLE, non gourmet burger chain has come out on top of the heap...5 guys.  Noting fancy, just old fashioned.  People NEED familiarity with there food.  They need to be JUST A TINY BIT adventurous, so they want a few new twists....THAT is what I am lookin for in pizza.

I ask myself, WHAT have we been taking for granted?  What can be improved upon?  What was done a long while back that MIGHT be ready to make a comeback??

That is what I want to build around..

[scott123]

Nick,  I agree with you 100% about bringing back the classics, although, with pizza, I believe, very strongly, that repackaging isn't required. Not even a little bit.

If you can make a Zuppardi's quality pie, with any kind of oven you choose, no matter where you are in the U.S., you will be a millionaire in 5-7 years, win awards, and have national acclaim.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/08/pizza-obsessives-frank-pinello-of-best-pizza.html
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16573.msg161670.html#msg161670

There's no twist here or repackaging. He's doing it with a WFO, but could just as easily be doing it with electric.  He's wildly successful because he remembers what pizza was, has a vision of what it can be and follows that vision religiously. He uses the phrase 'Glory Days' while I use the phrase 'Golden Age.' Tomaytoes tomahtoes   He and I kneel at the same altar. I never met the guy, but he's in one ex-pizza-mecca, I'm in another, and, you, to an extent, are in a third, although NH's star hasn't dimmed as much as ours.

You can probably find out what oven he's using, but it really doesn't make any difference. If you've got equipment that can make a 4 minute pie (WFO or many models of electric), you can make his (or Zuppardi's) or your own award winning pizzas.

[tdeane]

Terry Dean (Tdeane), went with the Woodstone.  I noticed in the Barbarella thread that he picked up a fork mixer.  So far, no photos of his pizzas, so it'll be interesting to see how Neo-y he ends up going.

Vesta is the place in NJ.  The owner recently joined the forum.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16044.0.html

but hasn't posted much.  From what member JConk007 has said about him, he seems like a nice guy.  Out of your entire list, I think the demographic he's dealing with (close to an urban area, but still suburban, lot's of pizza places, but not that many WFOs) would be the closest to yours. You might want to give him a call. I think you'd be far enough away to not pose a threat to his business.

We haven't broached this subject yet, but, after looking at pizzerias in my area recently, I noticed there were a few WFO places.  I think it might be worth mentioning, that, thanks to some WFO joints that run their ovens low and/or don't know how to use them, the public may not respond as favorably to the WFO branding as you might think.

Actually, I went an Earthstone oven and I am pretty happy with it. These are a couple of photos of a recent pie.