My New York pizza

[TXCraig1]

Great looking pie Lance!

CL

[Lance]

Great looking pie Lance!

CL

Thanks, I wish there were some good new york pizza places around my home town to try, so I could compare them. Most pizza places around here put a lot of toppings on there pizza.  I did try a few slices from local places, for lunch on the day I made the pizza.
 One was supposed to me a New York style, but it was covered in oil and the crust wasn't even cooked I shouldn't have even finished eating it, then the guy asked how it was, and of course I didn't have a good answerer, I said it was OK, What I wanted to say is, it was horrible and let me help you make a pizza. The Second place was ok, the pizza was not gressy like the other one. They said they had a three day sour dough crust, it was ok. I imagine its a lot harder to manage the dough in a commercial situation.
  I am going to try another place today to see if they are any good. I know one day I am going to have to go to San Francisco to try and find a good pizza cause where I live, the Best pizza place so Far is Round Table.
Lance

[Lance]

Lance,

Usually for a cold fermented NY style dough you don't need to add any sugar to the dough until you get out to about three days of cold fermentation. Over that time period, there are enough sugars released from the damaged starch by enzymatic performance (simple sugars) to feed the yeast and to have some leftover (residual sugars) to participate in Maillard reactions to produce color in the finished crust. If you add sugar to the dough and use the dough after about a day, you are very likely to get increased crust coloration because of caramelization of complex sugars and the Maillard reactions. Tom Lehmann discusses this effect of sugars added to a dough in a PMQ Think Tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4669&hilit=#p26890.


Peter

Thanks again
I made the dough without sugar the next time and it didn't brown as much, so you are right in one day dough the sugar does make the crust brown more. I was unsure cause I have made dough with sugar before, but it was a 2 or 3 day dough and the crust didn't brown as much the 1 day dough.

Lance

[tberichon]

I just pulled a NY Style out of oven using a 20 oz dough fermented for 5 days. Stretched on an 18" screen. Tfactor was .8
My first attempt tfactor was .65 and both were very good.

Flour 100%
water 62%
salt  1.75%
oil    1%
yeast .3%

Baked in 550* oven on middle rack for 10 min. I tried to post photos but too big.

[Ev]

I just pulled a NY Style out of oven using a 20 oz dough fermented for 5 days. Stretched on an 18" screen. Tfactor was .8
My first attempt tfactor was .65 and both were very good.

Flour 100%
water 62%
salt  1.75%
oil    1%
yeast .3%

Baked in 550* oven on middle rack for 10 min. I tried to post photos but too big.

That's a shame about the pictures. You have to re-size your photos.
Sounds like it was a great pie!

[tberichon]

here they are.
thanks,
TB

[tberichon]

and

[Ev]

Thanks for the pictures. I was right! That does look like a great pizza. I'll bet it tasted great too!

[Lance]

Well this is what I baked this week, I was reading the thread about Apizza Scholls methods for making pies and decided to try it. Well I'm sure the first one's i made did not ferment enough, I believe the polish did go long enough but the dough in bulk didn't really do much. the crust tasted ok.

but lucky for me I made to much polish so I put the dough in the fridge for two days and what a difference, so much better, crispy outside and soft inside, much better flavor. Does anybody think you can get overnight crust to taste as good and 2 day dough. I was using better for bread flour on these pizza's. All I know is I have got a lot more to learn about pizza making. the lighter colored crust was done on the barbecue, and the darker one in the oven.

Lance

[PizzaEater101]

I made this pizza with Power Flour 5 min mix, 1 hr on counter before I balled it and put in fridge for 20 hrs then on counter for 2 hrs, then cooked for 6 Min's on barbecue, the barbecue is a big steel keg.  Oven temp 650, stone temp 575. On grill for 6 Min's. I wish the crust was more airy. any ideas or suggestions or thoughts, would be great thanks.
Lance

Flour   243 g
water  64%
idy     .35%
Salt    4.9 g
oil      4%

Great job Lance.  Question, I may have missed this but what diameter is the pizza?

I have a Kamado too but not a Big Steel Keg.  I heard so much about these.  I'd like to make pizza in my Kamado too.

[Lance]

Great job Lance.  Question, I may have missed this but what diameter is the pizza?

I have a Kamado too but not a Big Steel Keg.  I heard so much about these.  I'd like to make pizza in my Kamado too.

thanks I like the barbecue just wish I could get more top heat, the bottom cooks nicely
and the top is not done enough for me.
They are 14 inch pizza's sometimes a little bigger but not by much.
Lance

[Lance]

On cinco de mayo I made some pizza's and added some Mexican spice's and toppings to them. I made some poolish the night before, house was warmer this time so the poolish was a lot more active, about 70 to 74 degrees in house. The pizza dough had much better flavor this time, although it was still to dense for my liking, and it was a little chewy.

What happens when you use more poolish than most people recommend, How does it effect your dough when you use more poolish than 20 or 25%? I am curious, does it not rise as much or make it dense or chewy. I also think the mixing could have made it dense and chewy, because the mixing seamed to take longer than I usually mix. I usually mix 6 mins or less, but this time I mixed for 8 or 10 mins.

here's the mix I used
Poolish
flour   104 g
water 104 g
IDY     .09 g
the poolish was out for 15 hrs. before mixing with the rest of the flour

final mix
flour     408 g
water    .21 g I had to add more water though the flour wouldn't mix to dry
IDY        .5  g
salt        15 g
oil          10 g

mixed all together and let bulk rise for 3 hrs. then balled and let set for 2 hrs.

[PizzaEater101]

Lance, excellent work! Making me hungry.

[norma427]

Lance,

Your Mexican pizzas do look good.  I really like the Mexican toppings. 

To answer your question about using the amount of preferment you are using, it doesn’t seem like that amount would be too much for a NY style dough.  I have used a higher amount in the preferment Lehmann dough.  I would think if you would up your hydration in the final dough more, it might help with oven spring, and if you think your crust was too dense and chewy it might help with that also.  It is always difficult to answer questions like yours, because someone didn’t get to watch you make your dough, or see pictures of how your dough balls fermented, but don’t really think it was your mixing method. What kind of flour did you use?  Your bulk ferment seems good, but maybe also the two hrs. of letting the dough balls sit out wasn’t enough for the dough balls to get the extended benefit of fermentation.  Your final dough amount of IDY is about what I used for a 1 day cold ferment.  What is the TF you are using also?

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Lance,

I think you did a very nice job. Using a poolish of around 20-25% isn't bad for a poolish based on using commercial yeast, but if there is too much poolish, there are acids that are produced that can toughen the dough and lower the pH to the point where you can have problems with crust coloration. You seemed to avoid that particular problem. There are some very good articles about preferments that were written by Didier Rosada, formerly of the San Francisco Baking Institute. Those articles can usually be found in the archives of the Wayback Machine at http://web.archive.org/web/20040814193817/cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm and at http://web.archive.org/web/20050829015510/www.cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food4_dec2004.htm. The latter article discusses the effects of acid on the strength of the dough.

Peter

[Lance]

Lance,

Your Mexican pizzas do look good.  I really like the Mexican toppings. 

To answer your question about using the amount of preferment you are using, it doesn’t seem like that amount would be too much for a NY style dough.  I have used a higher amount in the preferment Lehmann dough.  I would think if you would up your hydration in the final dough more, it might help with oven spring, and if you think your crust was too dense and chewy it might help with that also.  It is always difficult to answer questions like yours, because someone didn’t get to watch you make your dough, or see pictures of how your dough balls fermented, but don’t really think it was your mixing method. What kind of flour did you use?  Your bulk ferment seems good, but maybe also the two hrs. of letting the dough balls sit out wasn’t enough for the dough balls to get the extended benefit of fermentation.  Your final dough amount of IDY is about what I used for a 1 day cold ferment.  What is the TF you are using also?

Norma

Thank you Norma and Pizzaeater101 for the nice comments

I am using better for bread flour right now. I wish I could have let it ferment longer but it always seems the when you try to make done in a 24 hr window, I always run out of time, cause I don't won't to eat at midnight. I upped the IDY cause last time the dough didn't expand at all, this time was better, plus last time I did have more water, and now I remember the crust was not as dense, but the flavor wasn't as good. Also does TF stand for total flour or something else.
thanks
Lance

[Lance]

Lance,

I think you did a very nice job. Using a poolish of around 20-25% isn't bad for a poolish based on using commercial yeast, but if there is too much poolish, there are acids that are produced that can toughen the dough and lower the pH to the point where you can have problems with crust coloration. You seemed to avoid that particular problem. There are some very good articles about preferments that were written by Didier Rosada, formerly of the San Francisco Baking Institute. Those articles can usually be found in the archives of the Wayback Machine at http://web.archive.org/web/20040814193817/cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm and at http://web.archive.org/web/20050829015510/www.cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food4_dec2004.htm. The latter article discusses the effects of acid on the strength of the dough.

Peter

Thanks for the links Peter they are always very helpful.
Lance

[norma427]

Also does TF stand for total flour or something else.
thanks
Lance

Lance,

TF stands for the thickness factor or how thick a crust is. 

Norma

[Lance]

So I have been using a poolish to make my pizzas for the last two weeks, and I have to say that the pizza dough is just as good as a cold ferment, if not better. I also tried the same poolish with the power flour I have and the Better For Bread Flour just made a better tasting pizza dough. This surprised me, cause any dough that I had made in one day was never as good as a three day cold ferment.

Here are some pictures one is a Korean taco pizza, with Korean barbecue sauce, the others are just pepperoni and sausage.
Lance

[Lance]

Well I haven't posted in awhile but I have been reading a lot posts and stuff and thought I would give the re ball a try. Most of my dough I make is 3 days sometimes 4 but usually no more. So I have been using BFBF for the last couple of months, it makes a good pizza crust, but its more bread like, but good bread. I let the dough warm up a bit and then re balled it, it was out of the fridge for a total of about 2 hrs or a little less.

 On the last couple of pizza's i have been using BFBF and OO flour at like 60% 40%. I have to say the crust was pretty good tonight, very light with a little crunch to it. It could have been a little browner, but I really like the crust when its cooked for 5 Min's or less. I really want to get some bromated flour but can't since they don't sell in California, So I guess I will try some more Pendleton flour after the hot summer months are almost over. the temp this was cooked at was 650 on the barbecue.

water 65%
IDY   .25%
Salt   2%
Oil     2%