"San Francisco" style cornmeal attempt

[peetzabone]

Not sure which forum to post this in. Feel free to move.

I attempted a "flat style" cornmeal crust to start building towards a version of the SF style we enjoyed when I lived in the Bay Area: Vicolo, Ruby's were the most memorable. It looks as though Little Star has taken up the fight now. I'm not sure if this style came from Chicago and was changed (I think the original Uno uses cornmeal?) but it's not as "biscuit" as a traditional Chicago deep dish. Not sure on cornmeal percentage in the dough itself.

Anyway- dough particulars:
286g AP Unbleached Flour
100g Cornmeal (standard grind)
7g Fleischmann's Pizza Crust Yeast *see below
10g salt
230g Water
22g Olive Oil (pure)

I mixed dry ingredients in stand mixer with the whisk. I then turned on the paddle to mix in the wet stuff. Once incorporated I put it on the bread hook to knead for 10 minutes. It was a little wet but I let it rest in plastic bag (after flouring) for 16 hours in fridge. I brought it to bench temp and then created two ~320gballs and shaped into pizzas. I wanted them "thickish" even though they weren't deep dish. The dough worked well, very little tearing, etc..  I baked the pizzas on a 550deg stone with a "top stone" above it for more radiant heat. They turned out beautifully but the taste was not there.

The crust was dull but not unpleasant. The cornmeal added texture obviously but not much in the way of flavor or other characteristics. Possible culprits for blandness: * this new 'pizza yeast' from Fleischmann's.  I wonder what makes it different than standard Fast Action Yeast? Not enough cornmeal? Didn't use sugar / barley malt syrup / etc.. 

Next steps to try to improve: sweetener, increase oil component, try regular yeast and then try to bake in a deep dish pan to more closely mimic the Vicolo style.

Any ideas welcome- let me know if someone has already duplicated a Vicolo or Ruby's (or Uno?) style dough!

[buceriasdon]

My understanding is Chicago deep dish has no cornmeal, ever. I broke your recipe down in percents.
Flour (100%):    286.35 g  |  10.1 oz | 0.63 lbs
Water (76%):    217.63 g  |  7.68 oz | 0.48 lbs
IDY (2.5%):    7.16 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.38 tsp | 0.79 tbsp
Salt (3%):    8.59 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.79 tsp | 0.6 tbsp
Olive Oil (7%):    20.04 g | 0.71 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.45 tsp | 1.48 tbsp
Cornmeal (35%):    100.22 g | 3.54 oz | 0.22 lbs | 10.09 tbsp | 0.63 cups
Total (223.5%):   640 g | 22.57 oz | 1.41 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   320 g | 11.29 oz | 0.71 lbs
I take it you are using one packet of IDY, correct? Did you allow the single dough ball to double, then divide, allow to rest, then open the skins? Bland taste can sometimes be an indication of low salt content but at close to 3% that should be enough. I might suggest halving the yeast and going another day cold ferment and perhaps upping the cornmeal some. I make a thin and crispy with cornmeal and use a ratio of two parts flour to one part cornmeal. Please keep me informed.

Don

[Pete-zza]

Don,

Although the absorption characteristics of cornmeal may be different than the flour, I think it is a good idea to add the amounts of flour and cornmeal together for calculation of the baker's percents. So, for example, if the cornmeal and flour together weigh 386.57, the "adjusted" hydration value becomes 217.63/386.57 = 56.3%, the IDY percent becomes 1.85%, the salt percent becomes 2.2%, and so on.

Peter

[charbo]

Suggest scalding the cornmeal before adding to dough.  Alternatively, use corn flour.

[peetzabone]

Suggest scalding the cornmeal before adding to dough.  Alternatively, use corn flour.

I like this idea... I sometimes make cornmeal pancakes (Joy of Cooking) where the cornmeal is scalded in hot water (and then syrup added) for a time before blending into the dry ingredients. Softens it to a degree.

Re: corn flour.. I'd worry I'd be missing the texture?  Perhaps a finer grind corn meal?

[buceriasdon]

Please do let us know the results of your further experiments. I've done a rather unscientific study of the length of time I have responded to someone seeking advice or assistance, here it was a day, but I have waited up four days to respond, with no other responses until I post..........

[peetzabone]

I will promise to reply.. but I won't be doing another Vicolo experiment probably for 2 weeks.