Author Topic: gas fired brick oven  (Read 31587 times)

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Offline pizzaneer

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2012, 08:52:49 PM »
Factoring in the higher heat supply and the added insulation firebrick around your hearth will give you, I really don't think you're going to see as much of a drop in temp as you have with your previous setup.  If anything, I'm concerned you will get too much bottom char compared to the top being done.

I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.


scott123

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2012, 11:14:23 AM »
John, these thermostat mods are contingent, to an extent, on the BTUs the oven is pumping out.

How many BTUs are your ovens?

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2012, 11:53:23 AM »
85,000 BTU's

scott123

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2012, 11:59:57 AM »
John, is that 85K per deck?

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2012, 12:06:17 PM »
Sorry yes it is per deck

scott123

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2012, 12:47:10 PM »
The Marsal MB is 120K per deck, so you might be at a bit of disadvantage, depending on the size of the decks. What are your internal deck dimensions?

I don't think this mod is terribly costly, so it definitely shouldn't hurt.

This is a bit of a hassle, but, if I had this oven, I'd (carefully) take out one of the stones, weigh it to get a density and compare that mass to 2" firebrick.  As Pizzaneer pointed out, you'll take a conductivity hit with the firebrick, but... if 2" gives you considerably more thermal mass, it might be worth it.

I would go ahead with the thermostat mod, install the firebrick ceiling, crank the oven to the max and see how hot you can get the floor and how the top and bottom heat are matching up.  Once you have that information, then I think we'll be in a better position to help you choose a better hearth, if necessary.

Offline scott r

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2012, 01:05:34 PM »
Scott,  The thermostats and instillation were close to $350 if I remember correctly.  Its definitely good advice to wait and see what happens, but  At the pizzeria I worked with where the high temp thermostats were installed the bottoms of the pies were definitely baking way faster than the top when the oven was set to max.  This happened even with the flu's cranked wide open (allowing maximum heat to the tops of the pies). While these ovens didn't have brick lined tops, I still think your probably going to want something on the floor that doesn't easliy transfer the heat to the pies.    

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2012, 02:25:17 PM »
Thank you guys for all of your input.  I would have no frame of reference if it weren't for this website so I really appreciate it. 
The oven that I want to modify is actually the smaller blodgett 1048 which is more comparable to the Marsal MB 42 which has 95,000 BTU's.  The deck dimensions of the Blodgett are 36"x47" and the Marsal's deck is 36"x42".  I'm Going to follow your guidance and wait and see before I do anything with the hearth. 

scott123

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2012, 03:49:02 PM »
85K as compared to 95K.  That's not too bad. I think you should be in pretty good shape.

These thermostat mods can't produce Neapolitan pies, but, with the right flour, they can do some amazing NY style pizzas.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 04:04:14 PM by scott123 »


Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2012, 04:06:19 PM »
One last thing
I talked to my oven repair guy and he suggested we just re-calibrate the thermostat because blodgette doesn't make one that goes above 650. I asked if maybe there was a universal thermostat that would fit but he wasn't sure.  I'm a little worried it will be hard to control the heat if we go that way though.

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2012, 09:56:59 AM »
Mechanically speaking, most oven thermostats are simple devices.  Recalibrating one depends on just a few things:  an accurate temp reader (IR gun or digital thermometer with wire sensor) and a screwdriver. 

Process goes something like this:

1. take a benchmark read: set it as high as it will go, and read the actual temp in the oven.  You may be surprised at the amount of variance in your oven.  Most thermostats cycle in a 50-degree range: ie, if its set to 500, it may go up to 525, cut off, then come back on when it drops to 475.  Its all about averages.
2.  tweak thermostat.  There are either 2 screws behind the dial, or a small screw inside the D-post if you have a D knob.  Those screws regulate how far the triggering element travels.  If you've ever taken apart a house thermostat and seen the mercury level, its a little like that.  What you want to do is increase its range upward by a certain increment, say 1/6th or 1/7th of the dial.  Then do the temp test again.  Take your time and be patient with it.  Repeat as needed to get to where you want.

You may get substantially different temp vs time results after installing the firebrick insulation.  After doing that, your oven will take longer to heat up, and longer to cool down, so the thermostat will cycle less once it gets to temp.   But the basic temp control will be unchanged.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline scott r

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2012, 10:17:51 AM »
One last thing
I talked to my oven repair guy and he suggested we just re-calibrate the thermostat because blodgette doesn't make one that goes above 650. I asked if maybe there was a universal thermostat that would fit but he wasn't sure.  I'm a little worried it will be hard to control the heat if we go that way though.


there are thermostats out there that can be added to most ovens that go higher than 650 (maybe not made by blodgett?) ....The one I saw installed went to 750 and was on a blodgett if I remember correctly.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 10:19:44 AM by scott r »

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2012, 08:20:34 PM »
So today I re-calibrated the thermostat.  It took some time but I eventually got up to 735 F on the IR gun.  I'm hoping after I line the top and back with the fire brick it'll get a little hotter.  The only dough I had was for my regular NY style pizza.  It cooked up fine but was a little dry and cracker like.  Next week i'll try a more NPish style dough.  I made one recently with 75% 00 flour, 25% AP flour, 60% hydration level.  I let it rise at room temp for about 10 hours then made dough balls and refrigerated it overnight. we'll see what happens.  I'll post some pics wednesday afternoon.

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2012, 08:49:31 PM »
Thats good news on the 735F temp!  Now you have a lot more possibilities.

Theres a couple different ways you could go to really exploit the higher heat in your oven.

1. NY style dough..  if its crispy and crackery (when the top looks done), you may need to tweak the dough recipe.  Theres a ton of posts by Jackie Tran (aka Chau) on here about refining NY style for higher temps.  Basically, it comes down to hydration and proofing.

2. NP-NY hybrid..  this kind of pie is amazing.  Takes some work to get the dough right, but look out when its right!  Impossible to stop eating!
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2012, 09:23:28 PM »
Totally agree about the NY NP style being amazing

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2012, 10:20:41 PM »
My oven repair guy came in today to check out what I did with the thermostat.  I wasn't at the restaurant today but he called me and said he was able to get it 876 f.  I couldn't beliveve it.  I still haven't had a chance to make pizzas in yet but im dying to see what happens.  I have a feeling the bottom will cook way too fast without the brick lined ceiling but we'll see soon enough.  Im also wondering if their are any safety issues with running this oven so hot.  I don't plan on going over 800 but it still concerns me a little. 

Offline pizzaneer

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!!
« Reply #66 on: April 18, 2012, 01:12:23 AM »
wow!  I think you are definitely going to need a fb deck.  I didn't know a Blodgett could hit that.

You are on your way to NP pizzas!  Just do the fb insulation, deck and dough, and please post pics!  

As long as your vent can take it, you should be ok.  Have the repair guy look at the vent, replace it with SS if need be.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 01:16:39 AM by pizzaneer »
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.


Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #67 on: April 18, 2012, 11:56:34 AM »
My oven repair guy came in today to check out what I did with the thermostat.  I wasn't at the restaurant today but he called me and said he was able to get it 876 f.  I couldn't beliveve it.  I still haven't had a chance to make pizzas in yet but im dying to see what happens.  I have a feeling the bottom will cook way too fast without the brick lined ceiling but we'll see soon enough.  Im also wondering if their are any safety issues with running this oven so hot.  I don't plan on going over 800 but it still concerns me a little. 

Sounds awesome! can't wait to see what comes out

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #68 on: April 18, 2012, 12:04:33 PM »
Thanks
I'll look into the vents.  I'm going to cook some pizzas on saturday with the oven as is and I'll post some pics.  I have a good friend who's a contractor and he's gonna send his mason out next week to help me with the FB.  Do you think the FB deck is definitely necessary?  I think the trickiest part for me is going to be getting the top heat needed to cook the top before the bottom burns.  

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2012, 04:33:14 PM »
You've hit the nail on the head.  A very valid concern.

Using FB for the deck should reduce the chances of premature bottom charring at high temps.  The reason for that is because it is less conductive, meaning that heat will flow out of it slowly compared to most deck material.  The pizza is still getting high heat - but it won't be getting it so fast that the bottom burns before the top cooks. 

You also can temper the heat transfer, for instance for a heavily topped pie, by using a screen.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2012, 06:25:18 PM »
Thanks again for your comments
Last question regarding the firebrick on the deck
2" or 1.5".  I'm assuming 1.5" is good for everything but the deck.

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #71 on: April 18, 2012, 09:06:30 PM »
I would go with 2".  If you're kicking a lot of pies through the oven, 2" will hold onto the heat better.

Looking forward to seeing your pics!
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #72 on: April 21, 2012, 02:14:03 PM »
I was so excited to make some NP pizza's today.  My dough is ready, I went to the store today and bought all kinds of salami's, cheese's, fresh produce, I had my San Marzano's ready.  I was set.  Just got to the restaurant and tried to fire the oven.... Nothing.  The pilot is lit but when I turn the oven nothing happens. No gas.  It's Saturday and I can't get in touch with my repair man.  I'm really depressed right now.

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #73 on: April 21, 2012, 02:29:03 PM »
Scratch that last post.
One of my pizza makers said sometimes if you bang around a little on the pipes near the pilot it will start.  It's on and heating up.  2 hours or so and I'll finally be cooking

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #74 on: April 21, 2012, 06:02:54 PM »
Just making sure my pictures are going to work


 

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