Author Topic: Wet Gluten Mass Tests on Caputo Rinforzato, Caputo Pizzeria, All Trumps bromated  (Read 13345 times)

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Offline norma427

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Fred (SmokinGuitarPlayer) was kind enough to send me Caputo Rinforzato flour, Caputo Pizzeria flour, and All Trumps bromated flour to start the wet gluten mass tests on some Neapolitan flours and also some other flours if anyone is interested in these tests.  I probably will do two wet gluten mass tests on each of these flours (and other flours I have at home) to see if my results are consistent.

I probably wonít start the wet gluten mass tests until next week.

Thanks Fred for sending me the flours so I can do some wet gluten mass tests on them!  :)

I will need Peter to help me with the calculations in relationship to the other flours that I have done wet gluten mass tests on if he would kindly do those calculations.

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Norma,

I think the only calculations would be to convert from grams to ounces or visa versa. What I would plan to do is come up with a list of all of the gluten mass test results for all of the flours to date and include that list in this thread. I might also add the All Trumps data to one or more threads where these matters were discussed before.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Norma,

I think the only calculations would be to convert from grams to ounces or visa versa. What I would plan to do is come up with a list of all of the gluten mass test results for all of the flours to date and include that list in this thread. I might also add the All Trumps data to one or more threads where these matters were discussed before.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for posting that the only calculations needed will be to convert from grams to ounces. 

It would be good if you included all the gluten mass tests on this thread, so it would be easier to look at any wet gluten mass tests for flours if anyone is interested.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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This is the first wet gluten mass test on the All Trumps bromated flour that Fred sent me.  There is still about 11 ounces of All Trumps flour leftover, so I will have enough of the All Trumps bromated flour to do another wet gluten mass test.   I used the same method as before in doing the wet gluten mass tests by mixing 6 ounces of flour and 3 ounces of water and then kneading for 5 minutes. It takes a little while to get the dough ball mixed together when hand kneading.  I used a metal spoon first to mix, then went to hand kneading.  The dough ball isnít perfectly round as can be seen.  I then left the dough ball sit for 15 minutes in a covered plastic container before starting the washing.  I washed with cold water. The wet gluten mass weighed 108 grams after the washing, or until the water ran clear.  I would have thought the weight of the wet gluten mass test would have been a lighter higher, but it wasnít.

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Norma.

I have added the gluten mass test results for the All Trumps bromated and bleached high-gluten flour to the current list, which is updated below. The All Trumps gluten mass results are right next to the KASL and are still in the high-gluten category, so that is good. This may well be one of those cases where the relative numbers are more important than their actual values.

KASL (King Arthur Sir Lancelot): 4.1 ounces, or 116.235 grams (14.2 +/- 0.2% protein)
All Trumps (bromated, bleached): 3.81 ounces, or 108 grams (14.2 +/- 0.3% protein)
Power (Pendleton): 3.8 ounces, or 107.73 grams (13.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
ADM Gigantic: 3.42 ounces, or 96.89 grams (14.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KABF (King Arthur Bread Flour): 2.68 ounces, or 75.978 grams (12.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Mondako (bleached, Pendleton): 2.354 ounces, or 66.75 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
Better for Bread (aka Harvest King): 2.306 ounces, or 65.3751 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KAAP (King Arthur All-Purpose): 2.297 ounces, or 65.11995 grams (11.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Ceresota All-Purpose: 2.114 ounces, or 59.93 grams (12% protein)

Peter

« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 12:32:31 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Norma.

I have added the gluten mass test results for the All Trumps bromated and bleached high-gluten flour to the current list, which is updated below. The All Trumps gluten mass results are right next to the KASL and are still in the high-gluten category, so that is good. This may well be one of those cases where the relative numbers are more important than their actual values.

KASL (King Arthur Sir Lancelot): 4.1 ounces, or 116.235 grams (14.2 +/- 0.2% protein)
All Trumps (bromated, bleached): 3.81 ounces, or 108 grams (14.2 +/- 0.3% protein)
Power (Pendleton): 3.8 ounces, or 107.73 grams (13.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
ADM Gigantic: 3.42 ounces, or 96.89 grams (14.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KABF (King Arthur Bread Flour): 2.68 ounces, or 75.978 grams (12.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Mondako (bleached, Pendleton): 2.354 ounces, or 66.75 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
Better for Bread (aka Harvest King): 2.306 ounces, or 65.3751 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KAAP (King Arthur All-Purpose): 2.297 ounces, or 65.11995 grams (11.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Ceresota All-Purpose: 2.114 ounces, or 59.93 grams (12% protein)

Peter



Peter,

Thanks for updating the current list with the All Trumps bromated and bleach flour added.  I also think this may well be one of those cases where the relative numbers are more important than their actual values.

Do you or other members have a preference of which flour I should do the next wet gluten test on?

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Do you or other members have a preference of which flour I should do the next wet gluten test on?

Norma,

I don't have a preference but since the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour is such a popular one on the forum, that might be a logical choice for the next gluten mass test.

Peter

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Can someone break down what a wet gluten mass test is and what the information is used for? or is there another thread that already explains this?  ???
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline weemis

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ahhh, i see. protein percentages! i get it. but what i don't know is how exactly it is done.
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

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weemis,

You can read about the gluten mass test at Reply 23 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,783.msg7865/topicseen.html#msg7865. Norma and I have been using that test for reverse engineering and cloning purposes. Several such tests have been conducted over at the Mellow Mushroom thread, with examples being described and shown at Reply 1055 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg168160.html#msg168160 and at Reply 1066 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg168234.html#msg168234. Professionals use a machine called a Glutomatic to conduct such tests, as described, for example, at http://www.wheatflourbook.org/p.aspx?tabid=68.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 02:41:09 PM by Pete-zza »


Offline norma427

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Norma,

I don't have a preference but since the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour is such a popular one on the forum, that might be a logical choice for the next gluten mass test.

Peter

Peter,

I will do the wet gluten mass test on the Caputo Pizzeria flour next.

You beat me to the punch in posting to weemis.  :-D

Norma
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Offline weemis

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weemis,

You can read about the gluten mass test at Reply 23 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,783.msg7865/topicseen.html#msg7865. Norma and I have been using that test for reverse engineering and cloning purposes. Several such tests have been conducted over at the Mellow Mushroom thread, with examples being described and shown at Reply 1055 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg168160.html#msg168160 and at Reply 1066 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg168234.html#msg168234. Professionals use a machine called a Glutomatic to conduct such tests, as described, for example, at http://www.wheatflourbook.org/p.aspx?tabid=68.

Peter


you are indeed a wealth of information, Pete-zza! thanks, and happy testing!
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline norma427

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I did a wet gluten mass test on the Caputo Pizzeria 00 flour last evening and used the same methods as before to conduct the wet-gluten mass test on the Pizzeria flour.  The wet gluten mass weighed 72.12 grams after washing.  The Pizzeria flour was much easier to mix into a dough ball with 6 ounces of flour and 3 ounces of water. 

Norma
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Norma,

Thank you for doing the gluten mass test on the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour. I have updated the master gluten mass numbers (below) to include the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour. To the best of my knowledge, that flour still has a protein content of 11.5-12.5%. As you can see from the master list, the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour is bunched in with bread and all-purpose flours. Since the Caputo 00 Pizzeria is sometimes recommended as a substitute for bread and all-purpose flours (see, for example, http://www.fornobravo.com/PDF/Using-caputo-tipo00.pdf), the positioning of the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour in the master gluten mass list seems proper.

Master Gluten Mass List

KASL (King Arthur Sir Lancelot): 4.1 ounces, or 116.235 grams (14.2 +/- 0.2% protein)
All Trumps (bromated, bleached): 3.81 ounces, or 108 grams (14.2 +/- 0.3% protein)
Power (Pendleton): 3.8 ounces, or 107.73 grams (13.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
ADM Gigantic: 3.42 ounces, or 96.89 grams (14.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KABF (King Arthur Bread Flour): 2.68 ounces, or 75.978 grams (12.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Caputo 00 Pizzeria: 2.54 ounces, or 72.12 grams (11.5-12.5% protein)
Mondako (bleached, Pendleton): 2.354 ounces, or 66.75 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
Better for Bread (aka Harvest King): 2.306 ounces, or 65.3751 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KAAP (King Arthur All-Purpose): 2.297 ounces, or 65.11995 grams (11.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Ceresota All-Purpose: 2.114 ounces, or 59.93 grams (12% protein)

Peter

 

Offline norma427

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Norma,

Thank you for doing the gluten mass test on the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour. I have updated the master gluten mass numbers (below) to include the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour. To the best of my knowledge, that flour still has a protein content of 11.5-12.5%. As you can see from the master list, the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour is bunched in with bread and all-purpose flours. Since the Caputo 00 Pizzeria is sometimes recommended as a substitute for bread and all-purpose flours (see, for example, http://www.fornobravo.com/PDF/Using-caputo-tipo00.pdf), the positioning of the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour in the master gluten mass list seems proper.

Master Gluten Mass List

KASL (King Arthur Sir Lancelot): 4.1 ounces, or 116.235 grams (14.2 +/- 0.2% protein)
All Trumps (bromated, bleached): 3.81 ounces, or 108 grams (14.2 +/- 0.3% protein)
Power (Pendleton): 3.8 ounces, or 107.73 grams (13.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
ADM Gigantic: 3.42 ounces, or 96.89 grams (14.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KABF (King Arthur Bread Flour): 2.68 ounces, or 75.978 grams (12.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Caputo 00 Pizzeria: 2.54 ounces, or 72.12 grams (11.5-12.5% protein)
Mondako (bleached, Pendleton): 2.354 ounces, or 66.75 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
Better for Bread (aka Harvest King): 2.306 ounces, or 65.3751 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KAAP (King Arthur All-Purpose): 2.297 ounces, or 65.11995 grams (11.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Ceresota All-Purpose: 2.114 ounces, or 59.93 grams (12% protein)

Peter

 


Peter,

Thanks for adding the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour to the Master Gluten Mass List.  I see from your link that the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour is sometimes recommended as a substitute for bread and all-purpose flours.  

I have two other 00 flours at home and wonder if it would be worth doing wet gluten mass tests on them at some point.  I really donít know what the protein content is in them but think it is somewhere around 10%.  The flours are pictured below. The two flours are outdated, so if you donít think I should do wet gluten mass tests on them I am going to throw them away.

Norma
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 11:04:00 AM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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I did the first wet gluten mass test on the Caputo Tipo 00 Rinforzato flour last evening using the same methods as before.  The weight of the wet gluten mass test of the Caputo Tipo 00 Rinforzato when weighed was 75.43 grams.

Norma
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I have two other 00 flours at home and wonder if it would be worth doing wet gluten mass tests on them at some point.  I really donít know what the protein content is in them but think it is somewhere around 10%.  The flours are pictured below. The two flours are outdated, so if you donít think I should do wet gluten mass tests on them I am going to throw them away.

Norma,

It didn't occur to me until this morning, but I wonder what results you would get from a gluten mass test on the stale Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour, specifically, to see if the gluten mass number would be much different than what you got from the fresh Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour. Since the gluten doesn't form until the water and flour are combined, maybe the results would be similar, although it is likely that the moisture content of the stale flour is less than the fresh flour.

There is no urgency on this matter.

Peter

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I did the first wet gluten mass test on the Caputo Tipo 00 Rinforzato flour last evening using the same methods as before.  The weight of the wet gluten mass test of the Caputo Tipo 00 Rinforzato when weighed was 75.43 grams.


Norma,

Thank you for conducting the gluten mass test on the Caputo 00 Rinforzato flour. I have updated the Master List below to include that flour. According to the Caputo spec sheet at http://brickovenbaker.com/docs/rinforzatotech.pdf, the protein content of the Rinforzato flour is 12.5 +/- 0.50%. However, I should note that at the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14175.0, it was noted that the same spec sheet is used for the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour, along with some explanatory comments on the matter by Fred Mortati of Orlando Foods, the importer of the two flours into the U.S. If the two flours are more similar than different, that might help explain why the gluten mass test numbers for the two flours are close to each other.

Master Gluten Mass List (as of 3/17/12)

KASL (King Arthur Sir Lancelot): 4.1 ounces, or 116.235 grams (14.2 +/- 0.2% protein)
All Trumps (bromated, bleached): 3.81 ounces, or 108 grams (14.2 +/- 0.3% protein)
Power (Pendleton): 3.8 ounces, or 107.73 grams (13.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
ADM Gigantic: 3.42 ounces, or 96.89 grams (14.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KABF (King Arthur Bread Flour): 2.68 ounces, or 75.978 grams (12.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Caputo 00 Rinforzato: 2.66 ounces, or 75.43 grams (12.5 +/- 0.50% protein)
Caputo 00 Pizzeria: 2.54 ounces, or 72.12 grams (11.5-12.5% protein)
Mondako (bleached, Pendleton): 2.354 ounces, or 66.75 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
Better for Bread (aka Harvest King): 2.306 ounces, or 65.3751 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KAAP (King Arthur All-Purpose): 2.297 ounces, or 65.11995 grams (11.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Ceresota All-Purpose: 2.114 ounces, or 59.93 grams (12% protein)

Peter

Offline norma427

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Norma,

It didn't occur to me until this morning, but I wonder what results you would get from a gluten mass test on the stale Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour, specifically, to see if the gluten mass number would be much different than what you got from the fresh Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour. Since the gluten doesn't form until the water and flour are combined, maybe the results would be similar, although it is likely that the moisture content of the stale flour is less than the fresh flour.

There is no urgency on this matter.

Peter

Peter,

I didnít even know that my stale Caputo Farina tipo 00 flour was Caputo Pizzeria flour.  I will do a wet gluten mass test on it soon to see if there are any differences.  I did keep the outdated flour in a plastic bag, but I can understand it would still lose moisture.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Norma,

Thank you for conducting the gluten mass test on the Caputo 00 Rinforzato flour. I have updated the Master List below to include that flour. According to the Caputo spec sheet at http://brickovenbaker.com/docs/rinforzatotech.pdf, the protein content of the Rinforzato flour is 12.5 +/- 0.50%. However, I should note that at the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14175.0, it was noted that the same spec sheet is used for the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour, along with some explanatory comments on the matter by Fred Mortati of Orlando Foods, the importer of the two flours into the U.S. If the two flours are more similar than different, that might help explain why the gluten mass test numbers for the two flours are close to each other.

Master Gluten Mass List (as of 3/17/12)

KASL (King Arthur Sir Lancelot): 4.1 ounces, or 116.235 grams (14.2 +/- 0.2% protein)
All Trumps (bromated, bleached): 3.81 ounces, or 108 grams (14.2 +/- 0.3% protein)
Power (Pendleton): 3.8 ounces, or 107.73 grams (13.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
ADM Gigantic: 3.42 ounces, or 96.89 grams (14.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KABF (King Arthur Bread Flour): 2.68 ounces, or 75.978 grams (12.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Caputo 00 Rinforzato: 2.66 ounces, or 75.43 grams (12.5 +/- 0.50% protein)
Caputo 00 Pizzeria: 2.54 ounces, or 72.12 grams (11.5-12.5% protein)
Mondako (bleached, Pendleton): 2.354 ounces, or 66.75 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
Better for Bread (aka Harvest King): 2.306 ounces, or 65.3751 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KAAP (King Arthur All-Purpose): 2.297 ounces, or 65.11995 grams (11.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Ceresota All-Purpose: 2.114 ounces, or 59.93 grams (12% protein)

Peter


Peter,

Thanks for updating the Master Gluten Mass List.  I think I recall Fred telling me that the Caputo 00 Rinforzato 00 flour was supposed to be higher in protein, but the flours from Caputo are always confusing to me.

Norma
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