Author Topic: Wet Gluten Mass Tests on Caputo Rinforzato, Caputo Pizzeria, All Trumps bromated  (Read 14284 times)

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Offline norma427

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I only did the wet gluten mass test on some Durum Semolina flour this morning because I had used it before in some doughs (Pizzarium and stuffed crust blends) and wondered what protein content it might have for future experiments in making pizza dough with blending or not.  I purchased the Durum Semolina flour at Bova Foods, Inc. 

The Durum Semolina flour feels like a fine flour, but when I went to mix 3 ounces of water with 6 ounces of the Durum Semolina flour the dough was the worst I have mixed so far.  It seemed so dry and didnít want to form into a dough ball well.  I had to mix and knead extra for this dough ball.  The rest of the methods used were almost the same. 

What interested me about this wet gluten mass test was when washing pieces wanted to fall off and I had to removed them from the strainer many times, put them back into the wet gluten mass and start washing again.  For this wet gluten mass, I had to cup my hands and knead only in the cups of my hands while the cold water was running and I washed longer than with the other wet gluten mass tests.  It makes me wonder if this dough ball needed more water in the mix than 3 ounces.  The weight of the wet gluten mass on the Durum Semolina flour was 82.91 grams after the washing.  It seems to me to be in pizza dough territory, but wonders me why the pieces wanted to break off.  I think I am going to call Bova Foods, Inc. this coming week to see if I can find out more about the Durum Semolina flour.  There also seems to be spots in the final wet gluten mass.  The dough ball and wet gluten mass test both had a slightly yellow color.

This wet gluten mass test doesnít have to be included on the Master Gluten Mass List, because this wet gluten mass test was only for my benefit, but I thought I would just post about it because the wet gluten mass test acted differently than the other ones I conducted.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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I didnít even know that my stale Caputo Farina tipo 00 flour was Caputo Pizzeria flour.  I will do a wet gluten mass test on it soon to see if there are any differences.  I did keep the outdated flour in a plastic bag, but I can understand it would still lose moisture.

Norma,

I'm glad that you mentioned that. In retrospect, I believe that the Caputo 00 flour that you have in the small blue bag may be what was originally called the Caputo Extra Blue 00 flour but that is now just called Extra. That is a weaker Caputo 00 flour. The spec for that flour is given at http://image.brickovenbaker.com/pdf/extratech.pdf.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 01:30:14 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Norma,

I'm glad that you mentioned that. In retrospect, I believe that the Caputo 00 flour that you have in the small blue bag may be what was originally called the Caputo Extra Blue 00 flour but that is now just called Extra. That is a weaker Caputo 00 flour. The spec for that flour is given at http://image.brickovenbaker.com/pdf/extratech.pdf.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the link to the spec for the Caputo Extra and thinking what I have was called Caputo Extra Blue 00 flour.  Do you still want me to do a wet gluten mass test on it, or just forget about it?  The expiration date says 2010, so it is old.

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Thanks for the link to the spec for the Caputo Extra and thinking what I have was called Caputo Extra Blue 00 flour.  Do you still want me to do a wet gluten mass test on it, or just forget about it?  The expiration date says 2010, so it is old.

Norma,

If you don't mind doing the test, I would like to see the results, for whatever they are worth.

Peter

Offline norma427

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I did the wet gluten mass test on the Caputo Farina tipo 00 flour (Caputo Extra Blue 00 flour or Extra flour) last evening.  The dough ball was easy to mix and it was kneaded for 5 minutes.  I sure have no idea why when washing small pieces wanted to break off the wet gluten mass.  I had to retrieve them from the strainer and put them back into the wet gluten mass, just like I did with the Durum Semolina flour.  I donít know if this means the flour is not fresh or not (when pieces want to break off when washing), but I also had my Durum Semolina flour for awhile and didnít have the Durum Semolina flour in a plastic bag or in a plastic container.  All my others flours have been kept in plastic bags or plastic containers. 

The Caputo Blue Bag wet gluten mass weighed 58.38 grams after washing.

I also fed my Ischia starter with some of the Caputo Extra Blue 00 flour last evening and at least it seems to do well with the stale flour.  If anyone sees this post and thinks I should not be feeding my Ischia starter with stale flour, let me know.  I donít want to ruin my Ischia starter with stale flour. 

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Norma,

Thank you for conducting the gluten mass test on the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour. I decided to add your results to the Master List (below), along with a notation that the expiration date for the flour is 2010.

As for using the Caputo Extra/Blue flour, usually the main concern is if the flour has turned rancid because of its long exposure at room temperature. The Caputo Extra/Blue flour has slightly less fat (0.9 grams per 100 grams of flour) than other white flours but usually the flours can tolerate a normal room temperature environment for about 1-2 years (depending on the temperature where the flour is stored). A bad flour will often have an unpleasant odor. If your Caputo Extra/Blue flour has a normal smell, you are perhaps OK. The flour might have lost some of its moisture content but that shouldn't affect its use for your purposes. If that is a concern, you could do a hydration bake test on a small sample of the flour to see how much of its rated moisture content (14%) has been lost.

Master Gluten Mass List (as of 3/18/12)

KASL (King Arthur Sir Lancelot): 4.1 ounces, or 116.235 grams (14.2 +/- 0.2% protein)
All Trumps (bromated, bleached): 3.81 ounces, or 108 grams (14.2 +/- 0.3% protein)
Power (Pendleton): 3.8 ounces, or 107.73 grams (13.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
ADM Gigantic: 3.42 ounces, or 96.89 grams (14.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KABF (King Arthur Bread Flour): 2.68 ounces, or 75.978 grams (12.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Caputo 00 Rinforzato: 2.66 ounces, or 75.43 grams (12.5 +/- 0.50% protein)
Caputo 00 Pizzeria: 2.54 ounces, or 72.12 grams (11.5-12.5% protein)
Mondako (bleached, Pendleton): 2.354 ounces, or 66.75 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
Better for Bread (aka Harvest King): 2.306 ounces, or 65.3751 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KAAP (King Arthur All-Purpose): 2.297 ounces, or 65.11995 grams (11.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Ceresota All-Purpose: 2.114 ounces, or 59.93 grams (12% protein)
Caputo Extra/Blue 00: 2.06 ounces, or 58.38 grams (11 +/- 0.5% protein) (Note: expiration date of flour = 2010)

Peter


Offline norma427

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Peter,

The Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour doesnít have an unpleasant smell, so I guess it didnít turn rancid.  Thanks for telling me that a bad flour will often have an unpleasant odor. 

Would I just add flour and water to see how much moisture might have been lost for a hydration bake test?  If I only wanted to use a 10 gram piece of dough for a hydration bake test how much water and flour would I add for a dough ball. I guess I would need to mix a little more dough incase something might be lost in the mixing. I might do a hydration bake test on the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour just to see how much moisture it did lose.

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Would I just add flour and water to see how much moisture might have been lost for a hydration bake test?  If I only wanted to use a 10 gram piece of dough for a hydration bake test how much water and flour would I add for a dough ball. I guess I would need to mix a little more dough incase something might be lost in the mixing. I might do a hydration bake test on the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour just to see how much moisture it did lose.

Norma,

All you need to do is take a sample of the Caputo Extra/Blue flour all by itself and bake it at around 212 degrees F to allow the moisture to evaporate. You will want to be careful not to exceed the 212 degrees F temperature since that can cause the flour to burn and volatilize some of its components. When the weight of the sample stabilizes, which might take a few hours, that is the value you would use in comparison with its starting weight to calculate the amount of moisture in the flour. The calculation won't be perfect, given the imprecision of the test, but it should give you a general idea as to the moisture content of the flour. You perhaps don't want to use too much flour for the test since that can make the bake time too long to drive off all of the moisture, and you might have to stir the flour from time to time to expose more of the flour to the heat. Just a thin, uniform layer in your holder (e.g., a metal jar lid) should be sufficient.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Norma,

All you need to do is take a sample of the Caputo Extra/Blue flour all by itself and bake it at around 212 degrees F to allow the moisture to evaporate. You will want to be careful not to exceed the 212 degrees F temperature since that can cause the flour to burn and volatilize some of its components. When the weight of the sample stabilizes, which might take a few hours, that is the value you would use in comparison with its starting weight to calculate the amount of moisture in the flour. The calculation won't be perfect, given the imprecision of the test, but it should give you a general idea as to the moisture content of the flour. You perhaps don't want to use too much flour for the test since that can make the bake time too long to drive off all of the moisture, and you might have to stir the flour from time to time to expose more of the flour to the heat. Just a thin, uniform layer in your holder (e.g., a metal jar lid) should be sufficient.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for explaining how I would go about doing a hydration test on the Caputo Extra/Blue flour all by itself.  I didnít know how to do that before you explained it.  I will see what happens with a hydration test with the flour by itself.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Peter,

I did the hydration test on the Caputo Blue/Extra flour.  I weighed the metal lid and then added 5 grams of the Caputo Blue/Extra flour.  The metal lid weighed 14.36 grams before adding the flour and 19.36 grams after adding the flour.  My toaster oven was kept right around 212 degrees F for 2 1/2 hours.  I could see the weight of the metal lid with the flour falling a few times when I removed the metal lid and weighed it.  The metal lid with the flour now weighs between 18.74-18.71 grams depending on if it was weighed straight from the toaster oven or left for a few seconds on the scale.  What I want to ask you if you think I should bake anymore, or do you think the moisture is driven out of the flour by now?  I did weight it 20 minutes ago and it still weighed the same.  Maybe I wasnít giving it enough time for more moisture to be driven out of the flour.  Since I havenít done a hydration test like this before I am not sure if the hydration test is finished. 

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Norma,

If the weight has stabilized, I would say that the moisture has most likely been driven out of the flour. I would give the lid a chance to cool off a bit (maybe a few minutes) and then weigh the lid and flour. If the lid is put on the scale while it is hot, or even warm, that might throw off the electronics of the scale and produce an incorrect reading.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Peter,

As I was uploading my pictures for the hydration tests and some other posts, I put the hydration test back into the toaster oven for another half an hour.  The hydration test (weight of lid and Caputo Blue/Extra) now has cooled and now it weighs 18.82 grams.  I have no explanation for why the number went up.

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Norma,

The three weights you mentioned yield the following moisture content values:

18.71 grams (container included) = 13%
18.74 grams (container included) = 12.4%
18.82 grams (container included) = 10.8%

It is hard to say which is the most correct value. The moisture content of flour depends not only on the flour and its starting moisture content but also on the temperature during storage and the humidity to the extent it affects the flour. My recollection is that a flour can lose a few percent moisture over the duration of its storage. I tried to get some specific values from a Google search but did not find any hard and fast data. However, during that search I stumbled across a document that gives specific instructions on conducting a flour moisture test. It is at page 2 of http://extension.oregonstate.edu/sorec/sites/default/files/ash.pdf. FYI, the 130 degrees C in the instructions converts to 266 degrees F. I don't know if that particular temperature is tied to the type of oven (air oven) mentioned in the article.

For the age of your Caputo Extra/Blue flour, I can't say that the values you got are out of line since they are all in the few percent moisture loss range.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 04:28:56 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Norma,

The three weights you mentioned yield the following moisture content values:

18.71 grams (container included) = 13%
18.74 grams (container included) = 12.4%
18.82 grams (container included) = 10.8%

It is hard to say which is the most correct value. The moisture content of flour depends not only on the flour and its starting moisture content but also on the temperature during storage and the humidity to the extent it affects the flour. My recollection is that a flour can lose a few percent moisture over the duration of its storage. I tried to get some specific values from a Google search but did not find any hard and fast data. However, during that search I stumbled across a document that gives specific instructions on conducting a flour moisture test. It is at page 2 of http://extension.oregonstate.edu/sorec/sites/default/files/ash.pdf. FYI, the 130 degrees C in the instructions converts to 266 degrees F. I don't know if that particular temperature is tied to the type of oven (air oven) mentioned in the article.

For the age of your Caputo Extra/Blue flour, I can't say that the values you got are out of line since they are all in the few percent moisture loss range.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for doing the calculations for the hydration test with the numbers I gave you.  What I find interesting is since I had to run some errands and came home the number for the hydration test is even higher.  It is 19.18 grams.  I didnít cover the hydration test with anything and it is dry in our area.  I wonder if more moisture evaporates out of flour when it is left out without even doing anything to it.  At least it seems that way to me.  I am going to let the hydration test sit out more and see if the number goes higher.  Maybe if flour isnít stored correctly it can lose moisture quicker than I thought.

Thanks for the link for the moisture content test. It is interesting how a moisture test is conducted. I have a convection oven at market if you think that is something like an air oven.  I could conduct some moisture tests on flours while I am cleaning at market someday if you want me to.  

Norma
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 07:33:40 PM by norma427 »
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Online Pete-zza

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It is 191.18 grams.

Norma,

I assume that the above number is incorrect. Did you mean 19.18?

Peter

Offline norma427

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Norma,

I assume that the above number is incorrect. Did you mean 19.18?

Peter


Peter,

You are correct.  I made a typing error.  I will edit the number.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Since I really donít know much of anything about doing hydration tests on flour I have no idea if my results in values were anywhere in the right range for moisture lose in the hydration test of the Caputo Extra/Blue flour.  I weighed the hydration test a few times last evening and this morning and it seems to have stabilized at 19.25 grams.  I donít know if that is right or not.  I have no idea why the values changed.

In the Moisture Content test Peter had referenced at http://extension.oregonstate.edu/sorec/sites/default/files/ash.pdf they used a higher temperature to drive out the moisture of flours and different other methods.

Norma
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Norma,

Yesterday, after I mentioned the Oregon State article, I decided to conduct the flour moisture bake test as described in that article. For the test, I decided to use the King Arthur bread flour (KABF). Since my bag of that flour is a fairly fresh one, I wanted to see how close to 14% the results would come. A moisture content of 14% is standard for most white flours, and is also the value I have been using for all of my calculations in reverse engineering projects. So, for the test I used 3 grams of KABF and baked it in my countertop toaster oven at 266 degrees F for one hour. At the end of that time, the flour had turned a light brown color. The numbers suggested a moisture content of almost 17%. I let the sample bake longer but the numbers were erratic. I think part of the problem was that the sample was too small and my scale is accurate to only 0.1 gram. That meant being off by only 0.1 gram changed the numbers by several percent. So, I decided to conduct a second test along the lines that I recommended to you and that you used. I had used that test with flour before when we were conducting hydration bake tests at the Mellow Mushroom thread, and similar tests with molasses products, so I thought that maybe that test method was more reliable for our purposes in a home setting.

For the second test, I used a 5-gram sample of the KABF and heated it in my toaster oven at about 212 degrees F until the weight stabilized. It took about three hours for the weight loss to stabilize. From the final weight value, I calculated that the moisture content of the KABF was 14%. The actual value might have been a bit higher or bit lower because of my scale limitations but the larger sample size reduced the error rate. Also, the color of the flour was only slightly changed. Like you, I then decided to leave the KABF sample uncovered to see if it would regain any of the moisture that it had lost because of the bake test. I left the sample overnight on my kitchen counter. I checked its weight a few times before going to bed and I saw that its value was gradually increasing, suggesting that it was taking moisture out of the air. By this morning, all of the moisture that had been lost through the bake test was completely regained. The weight of the flour sample was exactly the same as when I started the test. This was all quite fascinating to me since I had not thought before how flour left at room temperature can attract moisture from its environment and at what rate. I had read before that that sort of thing can happen quite quickly, which was the reason I suggested to you that you let your sample cool off for only a brief period, but I did not think that the flour could absorb the ambient moisture so quickly.

Of course, the above tests, and yours as well, beg the question about the effect of flour moisture on the gluten mass test results. I guess in your case you would need a fresh sample of the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour to see if the gluten mass test results are different. I guess the best we can say is that we learned something new.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Norma,

Yesterday, after I mentioned the Oregon State article, I decided to conduct the flour moisture bake test as described in that article. For the test, I decided to use the King Arthur bread flour (KABF). Since my bag of that flour is a fairly fresh one, I wanted to see how close to 14% the results would come. A moisture content of 14% is standard for most white flours, and is also the value I have been using for all of my calculations in reverse engineering projects. So, for the test I used 3 grams of KABF and baked it in my countertop toaster oven at 266 degrees F for one hour. At the end of that time, the flour had turned a light brown color. The numbers suggested a moisture content of almost 17%. I let the sample bake longer but the numbers were erratic. I think part of the problem was that the sample was too small and my scale is accurate to only 0.1 gram. That meant being off by only 0.1 gram changed the numbers by several percent. So, I decided to conduct a second test along the lines that I recommended to you and that you used. I had used that test with flour before when we were conducting hydration bake tests at the Mellow Mushroom thread, and similar tests with molasses products, so I thought that maybe that test method was more reliable for our purposes in a home setting.

For the second test, I used a 5-gram sample of the KABF and heated it in my toaster oven at about 212 degrees F until the weight stabilized. It took about three hours for the weight loss to stabilize. From the final weight value, I calculated that the moisture content of the KABF was 14%. The actual value might have been a bit higher or bit lower because of my scale limitations but the larger sample size reduced the error rate. Also, the color of the flour was only slightly changed. Like you, I then decided to leave the KABF sample uncovered to see if it would regain any of the moisture that it had lost because of the bake test. I left the sample overnight on my kitchen counter. I checked its weight a few times before going to bed and I saw that its value was gradually increasing, suggesting that it was taking moisture out of the air. By this morning, all of the moisture that had been lost through the bake test was completely regained. The weight of the flour sample was exactly the same as when I started the test. This was all quite fascinating to me since I had not thought before how flour left at room temperature can attract moisture from its environment and at what rate. I had read before that that sort of thing can happen quite quickly, which was the reason I suggested to you that you let your sample cool off for only a brief period, but I did not think that the flour could absorb the ambient moisture so quickly.

Of course, the above tests, and yours as well, beg the question about the effect of flour moisture on the gluten mass test results. I guess in your case you would need a fresh sample of the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour to see if the gluten mass test results are different. I guess the best we can say is that we learned something new.

Peter

Peter,

Interesting that you decided to conduct two flours moisture bake tests.  Thanks for explaining your methods and results.  I didnít know that having a scale that is only accurate to 0.1 gram and using a smaller amount of flour would have changed the numbers by several percent in your first flour moisture bake test.

Using a 5 gram sample seemed to work out well for you in your second flour moisture bake test. I had also wondered at different times just how fast flour would gain moisture or loss moisture if not put into a plastic bag or sealed container.   Also interesting to hear that your second flour moisture bake test regained all of the moisture that had been lost thorough the bake test until this morning.  I guess the Caputo Extra/Blue didnít change in color at all since it isnít malted. 

I can understand your tests and my one test now kind of question the effect of flour moisture on the gluten mass test results.  Do you think it is even worth doing more wet gluten mass tests since I have no idea of what moisture contents the flours I have at home are?  I donít even know how fresh the samples are that Fred sent me.  I often think when I go to purchase 50 lb. bags of flour just how fresh they are, because the flours in the warehouse arenít kept air-conditioned.  I wonder at times if some of my differences in my pizzas at market or from flour that might not be fresh or have the same moisture content.  I guess we never will know just how much moisture content there is in different flours from the time they leave from where they are milled until we purchase them, or how that does change mixing, hydration, and final bakes of pizzas.

Norma
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