Author Topic: Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?  (Read 2147 times)

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Offline PizzaVera

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Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?
« on: March 08, 2012, 02:51:19 AM »
you think offering Coal fired pizza in a pizzeria setting will be something
of a novelty? there are woodfired places around here, but no coal.
I can get approval, just wondering if you think it would be a good draw card?



buceriasdon

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Re: Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2012, 05:20:49 AM »
I refound this page on the challenges of using a coal fired oven.
http://www.woodstone-corp.com/cooking_coal.htm

Offline Tman1

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Re: Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2012, 08:36:38 AM »
I think good pizza is a better drawing card than coal fired, or wood fired for that matter. There's a place here locally that I won't be going back to and it touts coal fired.

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2012, 01:27:23 PM »
I think good pizza is a better drawing card than coal fired, or wood fired for that matter. There's a place here locally that I won't be going back to and it touts coal fired.

Did you go in the first place excited to try coal fired/knowing it was coal fired? If so then the ploy worked, and if they had great pizza I would imagine you would go back.

So if you are the only place with coal AND you make amazing pizzas then I'm sure it wouldn't hurt your business. I really like Luzzo's, best coal fired pizza I've had, make yours like that haha!

scott123

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Re: Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2012, 05:44:51 PM »
You basically have a large portion of the public that probably doesn't even know what a coal oven is, nor cares, then a smaller group of foodies that are aware of some of the more famous coal places who associate coal with potentially great pizza.  Lastly, you've got your pizza obsessives, who know that it's just as easy to make bad pizza with a coal oven as any other.

I'm not sure you're talking about all that much marketability.  Add to that the notorious inconsistency you can get with coal and you're talking a lot of potentially mixed reviews on yelp- something that would quickly counter any of the romance/historic significance of coal.

If you can say, for certain, that there are no coal places for 30 miles in any direction and you think you might have people in your community that are familiar with the famous places like Patsy's, then go for it, otherwise, I don't think it's buying you anything.

I'm with Tman1- nothing will market your pizza better than itself.


Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2012, 06:06:47 PM »
Don't forget, in a lot of places you can't even legally burn coal anymore.
Rest In Peace - November 1, 2014

Offline PizzaVera

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Re: Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2012, 09:29:58 PM »
You basically have a large portion of the public that probably doesn't even know what a coal oven is, nor cares, then a smaller group of foodies that are aware of some of the more famous coal places who associate coal with potentially great pizza.  Lastly, you've got your pizza obsessives, who know that it's just as easy to make bad pizza with a coal oven as any other.



I'm with Tman1- nothing will market your pizza better than itself.



This is true, a great quality product will be the best marketing you can get.. OR IS IT?
I mean there are plenty of places which open up offer great quality food but fail in the first year for many reason.
places where the food is better than the place down the road which has been serving the same so so food for the past 30 years but is still busy every night.. WHY?  why is Di Fara, Patsy, Grimaldi's, luzzos so busy? I mean they turn over staff in those joints(expect Di Fara) all the time, immigrants working the ovens making the dough, what?.... all of a sudden these guys cross the boarder and are now artisan pizza makers? NO. these places are famous because the establishment is famous. famous for once being great, an icon if you will. so it's a pilgrimage so to speak. doesn't mean their pies are the best in the country. it just means customers want to say, "yeah, I've been there" just like the statue of liberty or empire state building.
why do people go to Babbo? Mario batali isn't cooking your food we all know that, again there will be  Mexicans cooking my carbonara but we go there because the place is famous. and we want to say we have been there.
I have been to so many so called "famous" places to only sit there and wonder what the hell is all the hype about? this food is average at best, but it takes days to get in and get a table.

why? why? why? it's not the food, there is something else which makes the place the next hot thing in the city.
If I went to Difara's and De Marco wasn't there making the pies, I think I wouldn't eat there, I mean I am going to this establishment to eat a pie from the man! not one of his workers or even his son. to me Difara's is an institution and I wouldn't be getting the 100% value for my money if he wasn't taking the pies out of the oven with his barehands and chopping the basil on my pie for me.
this is marketing which money can't buy!. longevity, history, emotion, passion, drama. A story.

you look around town and check out the new places in town, the ones which are popular now, the ones which are known as trendy places. you ask yourself. why? what is it about this place?
the quality? the interior? the location? the service? wood oven? the owner? perhaps a celebrity spotting place?
so many things to factor in.
was the  pizziolo imported in from Naples? or is he just an immigrant from Mexico? do we care?
opening a new place you want to offer something unique, something different, something new cool and hip, something to give you a market edge... of course we can't predict stardom all the time, sometimes chemistry just happens, we can analyze it after wards and ask ourselves. why did that place take off and the other place didn't? what was it about that place. what did they do right?
both places are offering high quality products emmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..
I see it everyday.. places opening and closing while some others power through.
some places where the food is amazing and you think this place has done it right, but to only close down 1 year later due to lack of business.
anyway.. something to think about over the weekend...


Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2012, 10:02:35 PM »
As per my response from before, I agree something like just having a coal oven could get people in the door. Marketing gimmicks often do work. I do think getting people back in the restaurant will depend on consistency and the overall experience (wait time, seating, service and most of all food).

If am somewhere new and want a good steak, I will often narrow my results to only prime steakhouses, and then choose the best from the field. I think people may also narrow their results in a similar by wanting to try coal fired/something different. However, to not confuse anyone, I don't think the oven in anyway will guarantee success, just that at first it could draw a crowd in town, and then the results could keep them coming back.

I agree with your examples about pizza places, but I can think of even worse examples. How about applebees? that place is gross, but people keep going because of the advertising, the gimmicks, and they know what to expect.

You know I have studied consumer mentality, marketing, and advertising. I actually studied from the retired president of marketing for Dennys and Pizza Hut, and product is definitely not the only factor to have success. Good marketing often makes decent food seem good.

I think if you get an oven and turn out a fantastic product it could be a great idea. I love to eat types of food I can not/do not replicate at home. Most pizza places don't have anything new to offer, but coal fired would be for most. I also think educating the public is valuable resource for those scott123 described who do not know about it. Pizza to many = chain, and a little information can create new loyal customers who never new what good pizza really is.

Best of luck either way, I think you can be successful with or without.

Offline JConk007

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Re: Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2012, 10:36:50 PM »
Example. Coal fired + chain = Anthonys coal fired pizza
Gimmick, hype, location? new this seriously overrated pizza  joint is still packed ?
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline PizzaVera

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Re: Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2012, 01:58:52 AM »

You know I have studied consumer mentality, marketing, and advertising. I actually studied from the retired president of marketing for Dennys and Pizza Hut, and

product is definitely not the only factor to have success. Good marketing often makes decent food seem good.


I love that. that is so true.


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2012, 09:02:43 PM »
One of the things I've noticed over and over about independent pizzerias that don't make money (which is most of them) is that the owners have no idea what they're doing or why they're doing it. They might have figured out how to make a decent pizza, but their procedures take twice as much effort as should be necessary because they've never worked in the foodservice industry. And all that extra effort costs money. It costs good workers, too, because good workers who know what they're doing won't work in an amateur operation. But it also costs customers because inefficiency creates inconsistent product and long wait times, which doesn't make customers happy.

If you don't know why you're making your decisions, stay out of the business. If you've never worked in a high-volume pizzeria, stay out of the business. For your own sake.

Offline PizzaVera

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Re: Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2012, 03:42:12 AM »

If you don't know why you're making your decisions, stay out of the business. If you've never worked in a high-volume pizzeria, stay out of the business. For your own sake.

I agree with you on some points of your post, but not the last one.  businessmen don't need to know anything about the business they are investing in, they need to the know economics of it, and then be able to hire people who can do their jobs, we see this everyday with investors.

as an investor, I always study trends, and try to figure out why something works and why it doesn't.
most people who have money, invest money into businesses they know nothing about. some fail, some become successful.

I don't need to know anything about the pizza business to buy a dominoes franchise.
I don't need to know about the lastest music, or cocktails to own a nightclub.

just need a wiliness to learn be good with numbers and hire smart people.

so I was just asking if Coal ovens were a trend which can generate sales. as a business stand point.

now of course as a owner/chef, you should know how to cook!


Offline scott r

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Re: Should I go with a Coal Oven pizzeria for a marketing ploy?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2012, 07:55:29 AM »
At one time I didn't realize this, but I now think its not just a marketing ploy.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18650.0/topicseen.html