Author Topic: a few ?  (Read 2101 times)

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Offline gobbetto

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a few ?
« on: April 10, 2012, 07:31:06 PM »
I have a few ? and need your help.I have been making Neapolitan WFO pizza for 15 years.I want totry my hand at American / Italian pizza. My dough recipe is as follows:
50# all trumps flour HG
13.5 quarts H2O
1 cup of yeast
1 cup salt
1 cup oil EVOO
1.5 cups sugar

would this recipie work for this style piza? how long should I mix,bulk rise, and after divided into 17.75 for  a 16" pie. I plan on refrigerating in bags after done. how long before Im ready to cook should i remove from fridge? I plan on using a blodget pizza oven at 500 degrees Fh. Any and all help is greatly appriciated. Thanks in advance and ifyou love Italy you got to love PIZZA!


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: a few ?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2012, 07:38:56 PM »
gobbetto,

What kind of yeast will you be using (e.g., fresh, IDY or ADY)? Also, when you say "American" style of pizza, how would you describe that style? Is there an American style pizza already out there in the market that you are trying to emulate? And can you tell me where you got the recipe?

Peter

Offline gobbetto

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Re: a few ?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2012, 07:46:09 PM »
Pete I am using Fleischman's IDY yeast. The recipe is a mixture from a few pizza shops in my area. The style is like Pizza Outlet. I'M not trying to reproduce it.Thanks for you quick reply!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: a few ?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2012, 08:32:04 PM »
gobbetto,

From a baker's percent standpoint, this is what your recipe looks like:

All Trumps High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (55.0125%):
IDY (0.6375%):
Salt (1.1813%):
Olive Oil (0.95238%):
Sugar (1.26563%):
Total (159.04931%):
22679.99 g  |  800 oz | 50 lbs
12476.83 g  |  440.1 oz | 27.51 lbs
144.58 g | 5.1 oz | 0.32 lbs | 16 tbsp | 1 cups
267.92 g | 9.45 oz | 0.59 lbs | 16 tbsp | 1 cups
216 g | 7.62 oz | 0.48 lbs | 16 tbsp | 1 cups
287.04 g | 10.13 oz | 0.63 lbs | 24 tbsp | 1.5 cups
36072.37 g | 1272.39 oz | 79.52 lbs | TF = N/A

I also calculated the thickness factor for your 16" pizza, as follows: 17.75/(3.14159 x 8 x 8) = 0.08828.

Now that I see what your recipe looks like, can you tell me how many hours of cold fermentation you have in mind before using the dough? Also, can you describe more fully the type of crust you are trying to achieve, in terms of its physical characteristics, and how you intend to bake the pizzas (e.g., in pans, on screens or disks, or on a deck)? The more detail on what you are trying to do, the better. I am not familiar with the Pizza Outlet product and could not find a link to their website. I don't even know where they are located.

Peter


Offline gobbetto

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Re: a few ?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2012, 09:18:28 PM »
Peter, when I make my dough for my WFO I generally do a bulk rise after mixing of 3 hours.pushed down after 1 1/2 hours. I then ball it and let it raise another 2 hours. I do this all at room temp. I was not sure that this would work BC of the amount of yeast and also the sugar that I do not use in my WFO. I'm sorry Pizza Outlet is the old name for present day Voccellis. i planed on making the dough on Wendsday and using it Thursday, Friday and Saturday.i planned on "bagging" it after the second rise and placing it in the fridge. i would be baking it on screens, at around 500 deg. as I normally do when not using my WFO. Thanks again! Daniel

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: a few ?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2012, 11:22:53 AM »
Daniel,

After I posted, I did more research and found that Pizza Outlet is now Vocelli's (http://www.vocellipizza.com/consumer/index.php). One of our members, c0mpl3x, works for Vocelli's and, no doubt, would be much more qualified to comment on your recipe and methods than I, given his intimate familiarity with the Vocell's pizza style. Although you said that you are not trying to recreate the Pizza Outlet/Vocelli's pizza, you might want to take a look at the Vocelli's dough recipe that c0mpl3x posted at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13277.msg131173/topicseen.html#msg131173.

The above notwithstanding, I will offer my comments.

First, the hydration value that I calculated for your recipe, about 55% (based on one cup of water = 8.15 ounces by weight), seems low for a high-gluten flour such as the All Trumps that has a rated absorption value of 63%. However, I have seen hydration values as low as about 50-55% for high-gluten flours and while I know that such a low hydration value is possible, you are likely to end up with a fairly dense crust, especially if the amount of oil is small, as is the case with your recipe. But if you are looking for a fairly dense crust, then your recipe should produce that effect.

Second, the amount of salt seems low to me. A more typical and mainstream value is about 1.5-2%. I usually go to the middle of that range and use 1.75%.

Third, the amount of yeast, at about 0.64% IDY, is high for a dough that is to be cold fermented for up to three days, and especially if the dough is given any rest time before refrigerating. You might make it out safely to one day of cold fermentation but the second and third days are likely to result in overfermented/overproofed dough balls with excessive extensibility (stretchiness). Lowering the amount of yeast to get to the second and third days with good performance will help with the dough balls for those days but it might penalize the dough balls for the first day in that they might be underfermented and harder to open to form skins. However, the amount of sugar in your recipe, 1.25%, should help by providing a source of food for the yeast after the first day.

I am only an amateur home pizza hobbyist so for professional dough preparation advice, I usually look at the advice given by Tom Lehmann of the American Institute of Baking. Here is an example of that advice: Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7953.msg68396/topicseen.html#msg68396.

You might try out your recipe with a small number of dough balls to see if you get the results you are after. That will be the best test.

Peter


Offline Ev

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Re: a few ?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2012, 11:37:29 AM »
A little off topic but, Welcome Daniel, and I hope you join in on some of the wfo/neapolitan threads going on here. 15 years experience could proof quite beneficial to us all.  :D

Offline gobbetto

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Re: a few ?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2012, 05:09:44 PM »
Peter, You should think of becoming a fulltime baker! Thanks for all of your help, I am going to tweak my recipe as to the links you posted.

EV Ive never posted until now, I do this as a hobby but have been trying to open my own WFO pizza shop. I do sell pizza in the warmer months but for a donation as I am not licensed. Drop my a line and maybe I can help.