Author Topic: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”  (Read 24701 times)

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parallei

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2012, 06:19:53 PM »
A little oven spring there Norma!


Offline Moondance

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2012, 06:24:28 PM »
That looks great Norma.  Can't wait to hear how it tasted.  I watched Lahey's video the other day and hope to give it a go soon.
Regina

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2012, 06:37:26 PM »
A little oven spring there Norma!

Paul,

I think it would have been better if my home oven wasn't so anemic.  Thanks so much for doing the baker's percents.  :chef: I never would have been able to figure that out. 

Norma

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #53 on: March 22, 2012, 06:40:04 PM »
That looks great Norma.  Can't wait to hear how it tasted.  I watched Lahey's video the other day and hope to give it a go soon.

Regina,

The Jim Lahey’s no-knead dough I tried fermented well and was easy.  I would be interested in your results if you give it a good soon.

Norma

Offline eatrustic

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #54 on: March 22, 2012, 07:48:37 PM »
Nice result! I love the calendar shot behind the slice for "proof of life"  :-D
I'm confident the technique is a good one despite my oven woes.

The University of Bread website is more of an all things Sullivan Bakery site than one devoted to Pizza. Don't see any pizza questions yet.

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #55 on: March 22, 2012, 08:20:57 PM »
Nice result! I love the calendar shot behind the slice for "proof of life"  :-D
I'm confident the technique is a good one despite my oven woes.

The University of Bread website is more of an all things Sullivan Bakery site than one devoted to Pizza. Don't see any pizza questions yet.

eat rustic,

Thanks!  Lol, I didn’t even think about the calendar being behind the slice.  :-D I will also keep an eye on the Sullivan St. Bakery website. 

I think if you try again, it will work out okay for you. 

Norma

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2012, 01:35:03 PM »
Norma

The fact that my Lahey pizza dough was so slack and unmanageable while you had more strength in your dough and it was more workable sent me back to the drawing board.
I didn't think my higher humidity was the sole factor.  I tested my water and it is alkaline and very soft, near soapy; both of these factors can result in a weak dough.  So now I better understand why we had different results.
Sorry Jim.

In the words of that great philosopher Rosanne Rosanadana: "Never Mind."

Bob

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2012, 02:28:05 PM »
Norma

The fact that my Lahey pizza dough was so slack and unmanageable while you had more strength in your dough and it was more workable sent me back to the drawing board.
I didn't think my higher humidity was the sole factor.  I tested my water and it is alkaline and very soft, near soapy; both of these factors can result in a weak dough.  So now I better understand why we had different results.
Sorry Jim.

In the words of that great philosopher Rosanne Rosanadana: "Never Mind."

Bob


Bob,

I really don’t know why your Lahey pizza dough didn’t turn out okay.  I really haven’t researched how soft water hinders pizza dough, but did read a few times that hard water is better.  I have very hard water at home because I have well water, but never tried that for any pizza doughs.  Water at market is also well water and I never tried that either.  I always buy water I have filled in my containers at my nearby supermarket to make all of my pizza doughs, except for some that have called for a specialized kind of spring water for reverse engineering projects.  Maybe you are right that your very soft water is what gave you the problems of your dough being slack and unmanageable.  Are you going to make another no-knead Lahey’s dough?  I might try KAAP the next time, but think I might have to hold back some water.  I am not sure of that though, but might hold back some water to see how the dough feels. 

Best of luck if you try the Lahey’s no-knead dough again!  :)

I was going to mix another no-knead dough today for tomorrow to try in my BBQ grill set-up, but it is supposed to be raining a lot in our area tomorrow.  I won’t get soaking wet just trying to make a pizza.  :-D

Norma

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2012, 11:30:59 PM »
I am gonna contribute my take on this in a few days (a fresh take). Making the dough right now for a brunch pizza. My approach is similar but also quite different from Jim's.

In reviewing the Lahey recipe on Slice, each dough ball (apart from bench flour, which I barely use any) is 217 grams which is either wrong or makes for some very tiny pizzas.

I don't have any real issue with Jim. When diehard enthusiasts evaluate things they have a tendency to be hard to satisfy, like the the way fans of a band dissect a new "album". They are far more critical than most people would be. I used to be more anal about my pizza but it sucks a lot of the joy out of it for me. Pizza making as hobby should, IMO, be more about fun and sharing food than some sort of rigorous lab experiment focused on an idea of perfection that is not static. Years from now, different materials and approaches will come out that make us rethink things all over again. There is no perfect way.

I do think Scott has some valid points though, but I have yet to hear the suggestions (specific and concrete, not blanket) of what Jim should be saying, just hearing that what he said isn't up to snuff. If he should have suggested a different stone or material what is it? If he shouldn't suggest cranking your oven as high as it should go what should he be, that we all need a particular kind of oven or what? If the bake time is erroneous what should it be? Is it reasonable to expect that everyone who buys the book has access to thick steel, a bangin' oven and an IR thermometer? Of course not, that is just totally unrealistic and would be a different book alltogether, one with a much smaller market of potential customers that is for sure.

I'll leave the naysayers (please understand I am not taking a pro Lahey stance, just being matter of fact) with a pic of a "low knead" (yeah, I coined that, if you use you must always give me credit ;) I made in 2010. I baked it on a cast iron (pizza specific) pan (blasphemous I know -- but I know for sure it works great and most of the people that malign this pan never even tried it, LOL), cranked the oven and observed the bake (never put it on broil, just preheated set at 550 for an hour). I don't need an effing thermometer or to know the exact temp of the oven to make a killer pizza -- when it is done it is done. My eyes tell me what I need to know and are the best tool available. If I did know all that, I have a hard time believing the pizza would have been any better, I just would have had more data points. Not a bad thing by any means but not necessary. I invite any of you to tell me that my pizza looks mediocre or that my method was somehow flawed. ;)


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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2012, 07:48:18 AM »
John,

I would be interested in your “fresh take” approach that is similar but also quite different than Jim Lahey’s.  Maybe you would want to start another thread with your approach.

I didn’t review the Lahey article on slice for the amounts.  I just used Paul’s baker’s percents, since I don’t usually make more than one dough ball for an experiment.
 
I saw Scott posted on the article on Slice.  Scott is very good with oven set-ups, flours, researching. etc.

I think as most books published by people (that are known in the pizza world), the books have to be understood by many people to try and make a pizza, not just like people here on the forum or on Slice.  The members here on the forum and Slice are only a few people compared to who might read Jim’s book.  The members on this forum are passionate about how they make their pizzas, what kind of oven set-ups they try, flours, hydrations, starters, types of pizza, etc.  I don’t really believe that the masses of people that will read Jim’s book will be passionate like most of us and all they want to be able to produce is a decent pizza.  Maybe they never tried to make pizza before.

Norma

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2012, 12:56:49 PM »
 norma just picked it up.thr dough has 3% salt in it .that surprised me. you pizza from the recipe looks real well made. his sauce is canned or fresh tomatoes a little evoo ans a little salt that is it.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 12:58:59 PM by thezaman »

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #61 on: March 24, 2012, 01:37:54 PM »
norma just picked it up.thr dough has 3% salt in it .that surprised me. you pizza from the recipe looks real well made. his sauce is canned or fresh tomatoes a little evoo ans a little salt that is it.

Larry,

Thanks so much for posting that Jim’s books says to use 3% salt in the dough.  :) That seems to be more in line with a Neapolitan dough.  Does that make sense to you?  Since I really don’t know what baker’s percents to try in my next attempt, I guess I will go with 3% now.  I might make a dough Monday night for Tuesday.  Do you plan on trying Jim Lahey’s no-knead pizza? 

Thanks for also posting that Jim’s sauce is canned or fresh tomatoes with a little evoo and a little salt.

Norma

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #62 on: March 24, 2012, 02:42:53 PM »
Hey Norma.

Thanks for starting this thread. 

I just bought the book and read it cover to cover last night.  (Had I found this post yesterday, it would have saved me the price of the book and the shipping.)  Also, thanks to all of you for your awesome comments.  Sometimes I feel like I'm in a vacuum (out here in La-La Land) and it's nice to have some "feedback" every once in a while to confirm what I think I know and also so I know I'm not totally off in right field. 

However, since I did buy the book, I thought I might add one or two quick comments to the conversation that might be helpful.  These books are not necessarily worth the price you pay for them unless you do your homework, I find.  For me, one or two tips from a book like this can change the way I do something and improve my technique (and pizza) drastically.  Like you all, I take this stuff very seriously.  So, here are a few things I'll contribute for now.

1)  Correction:  Lahey's salt percentage is 3.2%, not 3%.  16 grams of fine sea salt compared with 500 grams of flour.  It's not that important but...since we're splitting hairs here, I thought I'd try to set the record straight for all those who didn't buy the book.   

2)  Lahey names his "favorite tool of all" as the UNDERUSED SLICING BLADE on his BOX GRATER.  To me, this is very useful.  People spend so much money on French mandolins and food processors when the underused slicing blade can do it all and many of us already own it, though we don't know it.  For me, his thinly sliced vegetables on his pizza bianca from Sullivan Street Bakery are one of the key elements to the success of his product.  Obviously, the dough it kick-ass too but you gotta slice those veggies extra-thin if you're going to apply them raw.  They do the same at Forno Campo di Fiori, his alma mater. 

Fast-forward to 1:00 on this youtube vid for examples of oh-so-perfectly sliced veggies on pizza bianca.  Italian bakery porn with cheezy music at it's best...


3)  For the initiated, I think johnnydoubleu's comment on "low knead" is right on.  No knead is illuminating to some and may bring the couch potatoes into the kitchen for a minute or two but it's not the answer to our dreams here on pizzamaking.  For me it's just a gentle reminder that less is often more when it comes to mixing artisanal breads and pizzas. 

Cheers!
totally_baked

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2012, 03:11:02 PM »
The bakers percentages I posted came from the Bon Appetite Jim Lahey’s No-Knead Pizza Dough article Norma linked to here:

http://www.bonappetit.com/recipes/2012/03/no-knead-pizza-dough

Bon Appetite Lahey Recipe

I assumed it made 6 @ 12-inch pies to get the TF of 0.09

Flour 100%
Water 71%
ADY 0.2%
Salt 2%
TF =0.09

The Serious Eats Lahey No-Knead Pizza Dough Recipe

linked here:

http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2012/03/jim-laheys-no-knead-pizza-dough-recipe.html

Would be:

Flour 100%
Water 70%
ADY 0.2%
Salt 3.2%

I didn't notice a skin size for the Serious Eats recipe and video, but they said four balls so:

Their weight of dough was 867g or 30.6 oz.

4 @ 12-inch pies, TF = 0.068
4 @ 10-inch pies, TF = 0.097

« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 03:12:43 PM by parallei »

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #64 on: March 24, 2012, 03:25:38 PM »
Hey Norma.

Thanks for starting this thread. 

I just bought the book and read it cover to cover last night.  (Had I found this post yesterday, it would have saved me the price of the book and the shipping.)  Also, thanks to all of you for your awesome comments.  Sometimes I feel like I'm in a vacuum (out here in La-La Land) and it's nice to have some "feedback" every once in a while to confirm what I think I know and also so I know I'm not totally off in right field. 

However, since I did buy the book, I thought I might add one or two quick comments to the conversation that might be helpful.  These books are not necessarily worth the price you pay for them unless you do your homework, I find.  For me, one or two tips from a book like this can change the way I do something and improve my technique (and pizza) drastically.  Like you all, I take this stuff very seriously.  So, here are a few things I'll contribute for now.

1)  Correction:  Lahey's salt percentage is 3.2%, not 3%.  16 grams of fine sea salt compared with 500 grams of flour.  It's not that important but...since we're splitting hairs here, I thought I'd try to set the record straight for all those who didn't buy the book.   

2)  Lahey names his "favorite tool of all" as the UNDERUSED SLICING BLADE on his BOX GRATER.  To me, this is very useful.  People spend so much money on French mandolins and food processors when the underused slicing blade can do it all and many of us already own it, though we don't know it.  For me, his thinly sliced vegetables on his pizza bianca from Sullivan Street Bakery are one of the key elements to the success of his product.  Obviously, the dough it kick-ass too but you gotta slice those veggies extra-thin if you're going to apply them raw.  They do the same at Forno Campo di Fiori, his alma mater. 

Fast-forward to 1:00 on this youtube vid for examples of oh-so-perfectly sliced veggies on pizza bianca.  Italian bakery porn with cheezy music at it's best...


3)  For the initiated, I think johnnydoubleu's comment on "low knead" is right on.  No knead is illuminating to some and may bring the couch potatoes into the kitchen for a minute or two but it's not the answer to our dreams here on pizzamaking.  For me it's just a gentle reminder that less is often more when it comes to mixing artisanal breads and pizzas. 

Cheers!
totally_baked

totally_baked,

I believe most of the active members on this forum are always trying to learn more about anything related to pizza and how that information will help each of us make better pizzas.

I find your comment quite interesting that the price of the book really isn’t necessarily worth the price that is paid unless the homework is done.  I am glad you found some things in Jim Lahey’s book useful. 

Thanks so much for giving the correction that Lahey’s salt percentage is 3.2%.  I never thought of using a slicing blade on the box cutter for thinly sliced vegetables.  That is very helpful.  I also tasted those slices of Jim Lahey’s pizza bianca with the thinly sliced vegetables and also thought they were great.  I didn’t know either that Forno Campo di Fiori was Jim Lahey’s alma mater. 

I agree that the video you posted sure is Italian bakery porn.   ;D

I also agree that no-knead isn’t really the answer to our dreams here on pizzamaking.com, but find it interesting to experiment.

I see you take a serious approach to making your pizzas which is great.  :)

Norma

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #65 on: March 24, 2012, 03:30:40 PM »
The bakers percentages I posted came from the Bon Appetite Jim Lahey’s No-Knead Pizza Dough article Norma linked to here:

http://www.bonappetit.com/recipes/2012/03/no-knead-pizza-dough

Bon Appetite Lahey Recipe

I assumed it made 6 @ 12-inch pies to get the TF of 0.09

Flour 100%
Water 71%
ADY 0.2%
Salt 2%
TF =0.09

The Serious Eats Lahey No-Knead Pizza Dough Recipe

linked here:

http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2012/03/jim-laheys-no-knead-pizza-dough-recipe.html

Would be:

Flour 100%
Water 70%
ADY 0.2%
Salt 3.2%

I didn't notice a skin size for the Serious Eats recipe and video, but they said four balls so:

Their weight of dough was 867g or 30.6 oz.

4 @ 12-inch pies, TF = 0.068
4 @ 10-inch pies, TF = 0.097



Paul,

Sorry for all the confusion for you in figuring out the bakers percentages.  I appreciate you are willing to do the calculations for anyone that is interested.  I sure am one that is interested. 

Thanks again!  :chef: ;)

Norma

parallei

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #66 on: March 24, 2012, 04:09:29 PM »
Your welcome Norma.  No confusion, just different versions of the same approach floating around.  I'm sure there will be others! ;D

Paul


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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #67 on: March 24, 2012, 05:14:16 PM »
Your welcome Norma.  No confusion, just different versions of the same approach floating around.  I'm sure there will be others! ;D

Paul

Paul,

Thanks for your patience.  :angel: Hope you don’t have to do anymore bakers percentage calculations if there are more versions floating around.

Norma

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #68 on: March 24, 2012, 06:39:40 PM »
 one area am having trouble with is he goes from bulk to individual balls and i do not think he incorporates a rest period. i have just glanced at the book i may have missed that point,or it may not be necessary with his method.

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2012, 06:44:42 PM »
@thezaman - I would assume that there is a rest period and that this is an oversight.  Any bakery or pizzeria would give it a rest period but this book is meant for amateurs so your guess is as good as mine.  I'm assuming that, if you tried stretching the dough ball too quickly, it would tear.  Have you tried?

Best guess:  give a rest of at least two hours at room temp (72F) - preferably more.

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2012, 10:02:59 PM »
Larry,

I agree with totally_baked that the dough balls would need a rest period after he goes from bulk to individual dough balls.  I don’t see how the gluten would rearrange itself enough to be able to open them right away. 

Norma

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #71 on: March 25, 2012, 07:23:28 PM »
 so far i am happy with the lahey book. lots of creative pizzas. i made a batch of dough early this morning it is proofing in a warm area and may be ready with a 14 hour rise.not sure it will work without a rest from bulk to balls, i will see. a 30 minute rest might be all it needs. he does go into electric oven set up that claims to get 600 degrees. by opening the door for a period of time the broiler works overtime getting the temperature up some.
 he comment on his pizza background and states that a lot of pizza in naples is of low quality designed for the tourists. he mentions under proofed dough as a problem in some pizzerias, also the lack of ingredient quality. da michele's is highly regarded by mr. lahey.
 

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #72 on: March 25, 2012, 08:21:31 PM »
so far i am happy with the lahey book. lots of creative pizzas. i made a batch of dough early this morning it is proofing in a warm area and may be ready with a 14 hour rise.not sure it will work without a rest from bulk to balls, i will see. a 30 minute rest might be all it needs. he does go into electric oven set up that claims to get 600 degrees. by opening the door for a period of time the broiler works overtime getting the temperature up some.
 he comment on his pizza background and states that a lot of pizza in naples is of low quality designed for the tourists. he mentions under proofed dough as a problem in some pizzerias, also the lack of ingredient quality. da michele's is highly regarded by mr. lahey.
 

Larry,

Nice to hear so far you are satisfied with Jim Lahey’s book.  I will be interested after you try a pizza how satisfied you will be. Glad to hear you are also trying a go at Jim’s no-knead pizza dough.  I think Kenji mentioned on Slice that Jim Lahey used a Jenn Air oven and no convection for the dough balls Kenji and him tried out.  Thanks for telling more what is in Jim's book.  I thought most pizzas in Naples were supposed to be good, but I had a friend that brought me back lots of pictures of pizzas and I didn’t think they look as good as most members produce here on the forum.  

I sure would like to be able to try a da michele’s  pizza sometime, but that probably is not ever going to happen.

My mom really enjoyed the slices I took her for a reheat.  She said anything I wanted to make Jim’s dough again she is ready to eat more.  If I have time tomorrow evening I am going to mix up enough dough for one pizza to try at market.

Norma

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #73 on: March 26, 2012, 09:51:25 AM »
I do think Scott has some valid points though, but I have yet to hear the suggestions (specific and concrete, not blanket) of what Jim should be saying, just hearing that what he said isn't up to snuff. If he should have suggested a different stone or material what is it? If he shouldn't suggest cranking your oven as high as it should go what should he be, that we all need a particular kind of oven or what? If the bake time is erroneous what should it be? Is it reasonable to expect that everyone who buys the book has access to thick steel, a bangin' oven and an IR thermometer? Of course not, that is just totally unrealistic and would be a different book alltogether, one with a much smaller market of potential customers that is for sure.

Based upon Jim's previous comments in videos, I made the assumption that he was going to be relatively oven setup agnostic. This assumption turned out to be incorrect.  Until I'm able to read the book, though, I still don't have all the details so I'm waiting to comment further.

Jim Lahey is, imo, a 'diehard enthusiast' bread maker, and, from accounts of people that have eaten his pizza, he appears equally obsessive in that realm as well.   I expect more from him, and, hopefully, once I'm able to read the oven related sections of the book in their entirety, he will meet my expectations.

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Re: Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”
« Reply #74 on: March 26, 2012, 11:00:08 AM »
  i made my first batch of pizza from the book. i can say that you can make good pizza with the recipe it is complicated and will take practice. it will also take work to get a good oven setup. the dough is ultra wet. it takes a lot of flour to dry the exterior enough to work it into balls.it will take a short rest from ball to make to relax the gluten. you have to fold the dough into a circle you cannot work it like a normal hydrated dough. a lot of bench flour is needed on the work surface and peel.you also have to work very fast or it will stick.
 i used my little cusinart pizza oven which only produces a 11 inch pizza.it has a nice broiling element an i though it would get the stone ultra hot. in the stock set up it was stuck at 500 degrees. my first three pizzas cooked for 15 minutes way to long and got no color to the dough.for my last attempt i put a 2 inch pan under the stone moving the stone to 4 inches of the broiler.this pizza cooked in 6 minutes and had the characteristics of a coal style pizza.i put the sauce over the cheese to protect the cheese from the broiler. this was a good tasting pizza. if i use this oven again i will set it up using a spacer to get the stone to 4 inches from the broiler.i will reduce the dough from 220 grams to maybe 195. this will produce a quicker bake.
 in summery it will take a lot to produce the type of pizza represented in the book. if this book is being purchased by someone with pizza and bread background it will be a good investment. a newbie that had luck with the no need bread book might struggle with this.
 one other point the 3.2% salt is to much i will reduce that amount next bake to 2.5%